(12-14-2021, 02:19 PM)Sanforbd Wrote: Carman, bust

EEEEEeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz there for the time being. 

Jury is still deliberating on this verdict and even though the evidence tilts in your direction its not a closed case just yet. 

(12-14-2021, 05:20 PM)Joelist Wrote: They left Prince on an island on the sack. 

so we have to know which play we are going to get sacked ??, a short down and distance is a much better time to go one on one, spread the field gives you a better chance for quick throw.. 

Carman can;t not be labeled a bust, way too early but he can be labeled a disappointment for a early 2nd round pick for sure in his 1st season when he had a chance to start

(12-14-2021, 02:19 PM)Sanforbd Wrote: Carman, bust

Hard to call a guy a bust this early in his career.

It takes more time for a college OL to transition to the NFL game then say a CB or WR or even a DL. Most guys on the OL struggle their first season in the league and for Carman the struggle is greater since he also had to deal with being injured and losing reps.

Problem is, even if the Bengals invest heavily on OL in the 2022 draft, most those guys won't look good till the end of the 2022 season of more likely the 2023 season. 

They're going to have to find a way to sign multiple starters to hold down spots while allowing Carman and anyone they draft next year to develop behind them.

The Carman bust stuff is silly.

He was in there at RG and after a rough start was steadily improving until he was inexplicably demoted in favor of Adeniji. Adeniji has been a better run blocker but an atrocious pass blocker. And Prince was set up to fail with the ridiculous way they used him. We drafted 3 OL and our biggest issue is our depth is extremely green - we lack experienced backups. It was a calculated risk they took and it currently is not working.

For right now I think Carman has to go back in at RG and Adeniji kick out to RT with the TE lined up to the right side to support him.

48.9 PFF grade
Back injury that everyone worried about has flared up
Got demoted for Hakeem Adeniji

The only thing keeping the "bust" label off of him is time. He was a disaster this year.

(12-15-2021, 02:03 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Hard to call a guy a bust this early in his career.

It takes more time for a college OL to transition to the NFL game then say a CB or WR or even a DL. Most guys on the OL struggle their first season in the league and for Carman the struggle is greater since he also had to deal with being injured and losing reps.

Problem is, even if the Bengals invest heavily on OL in the 2022 draft, most those guys won't look good till the end of the 2022 season of more likely the 2023 season. 

They're going to have to find a way to sign multiple starters to hold down spots while allowing Carman and anyone they draft next year to develop behind them.

early returns havent been that favoriable yet...  But he has 3 more years till that rookie deal expires

They have D'Ante Smith practicing both tackle spots. They have 2 weeks remaining to activate him

Reiff doubtful for Denver.

Zac Taylor informs us LB Logan Wilson will miss a second straight game due to his shoulder injury, and RT Riley Reiff is considered “doubtful” to play vs Denver.

— Marisa Contipelli (@BengalsMarisa) December 15, 2021

(12-14-2021, 05:20 PM)Joelist Wrote: They left Prince on an island on the sack. 

So are you saying there should have been a TE helping block every single snap?
If so, I disagree, as that removes a receiving option.
You have to do a mix of both to keep the defense guessing.

(12-15-2021, 02:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The only thing keeping the "bust" label off of him is time. He was a disaster this year.

Good thing "time" is the only one that matters.

Want to see a list of dozens of great players who sucked their rookie year?

I am not predicting that Carman will become a good player.  Just saying history has proven that it is silly to call any rookie a "bust".  It is too early to tell.

(12-15-2021, 07:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Good thing "time" is the only one that matters.

Want to see a list of dozens of great players who sucked their rookie year?

I am not predicting that Carman will become a good player.  Just saying history has proven that it is silly to call any rookie a "bust".  It is too early to tell.

Not to mention Carman had to change positions.
It's different playing guard vs tackle.

(12-15-2021, 07:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Good thing "time" is the only one that matters.

Want to see a list of dozens of great players who sucked their rookie year?

I am not predicting that Carman will become a good player.  Just saying history has proven that it is silly to call any rookie a "bust".  It is too early to tell.

You misunderstood what I was saying. Of course there's a chance he turns it around. There's ALWAYS a chance.

I'm just saying there was nothing about his season that would inspire optimism other than "time" and blind hope that he could turn it around.

Don’t know if Carman is an answer for the future, but for right now; I’ll put my trust in Pollack’s judgement to field the best 5 linemen currently available.

(12-15-2021, 07:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Good thing "time" is the only one that matters.

Want to see a list of dozens of great players who sucked their rookie year?

I am not predicting that Carman will become a good player.  Just saying history has proven that it is silly to call any rookie a "bust".  It is too early to tell.

Is the jury in on:

Cebric O

Billy Price

John Ross

(12-15-2021, 02:51 PM)pally Wrote: They have D'Ante Smith practicing both tackle spots. They have 2 weeks remaining to activate him

Smith is who I want to see at RT if Reiff can’t go.

(12-15-2021, 07:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You misunderstood what I was saying. Of course there's a chance he turns it around. There's ALWAYS a chance.

I'm just saying there was nothing about his season that would inspire optimism other than "time" and blind hope that he could turn it around.

I don’t really agree with that. We saw some flashes. He had a couple nice pancake blocks. And as bad as he was he gave up 0 sacks in any of his starts. I’m definitely pretty down on him atm, but I wouldn’t say there was “nothing” to be optimistic about his play.

(12-15-2021, 09:58 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: Don’t know if Carman is an answer for the future, but for right now; I’ll put my trust in Pollack’s judgement to field the best 5 linemen currently available.

This.

And we sure as hell couldn’t say that last year.

(12-15-2021, 09:58 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: Don’t know if Carman is an answer for the future, but for right now; I’ll put my trust in Pollack’s judgement to field the best 5 linemen currently available.

well so far this year, we have been healthy so most of the positions have been pretty locked with ok success, since injuries that success has decreased and we have continued to be sacked at an alarming rate.. so my judgement on Pollack is cloudy at best

(12-15-2021, 02:20 AM)Joelist Wrote: The Carman bust stuff is silly.

He was in there at RG and after a rough start was steadily improving until he was inexplicably demoted in favor of Adeniji. Adeniji has been a better run blocker but an atrocious pass blocker. And Prince was set up to fail with the ridiculous way they used him. We drafted 3 OL and our biggest issue is our depth is extremely green - we lack experienced backups. It was a calculated risk they took and it currently is not working.

For right now I think Carman has to go back in at RG and Adeniji kick out to RT with the TE lined up to the right side to support him.

Silly was also the total justification of what a great move it was to trade back with saying Carman was a stud and will start most likely day 1, now reality is setting in that so far his rookie year amounts to a subpar year,, I remember people mentioning Price was a bust after year one and I agree that was silly but questioning if we could have done better with 2nd round pick is a legit discussion