The one real true weakness we have is covering the tight ends, we all know that so I won't continue to beat a dead horse..I am simply talking solutions moving forward and just thinking to myself I think I came away with something worth a try..


Since we've been depleted at the linebacker position lately I think we should move von bell to linebacker position and let trae waynes play some safety;his job would simply be press coverage one on one with the mark andrews and Travis kelces of the world..

We would still be able to mix it up and give different looks but on money downs I would match him one on one with the tight end..

Surprised more threads like this don’t exist.

It’s definitely our Achilles heel on Defense IMHO.

That’s said we’ve done surprisingly well this year with the exceptions being the San Fran and San Diego game.

Trey Flowers is a much better matchup with TE's, he is way bigger and better in coverage than Bell who is a run stopper
and an enforcer who loves to punch the ball out. I know Kittle destroyed us but that was more cause of his great hard
catches he kept making and Jimmy G is a wizard in the middle of the field. Flowers handled Andrews well the last time
we played him. Sometimes the QB and TE are just too good no matter how you play them like was the case with Kittle.

Kelce will give us trouble, he gives everybody trouble. Kittle also had more yards in the game before he played us.

Some dudes are just beasts of TE's, which is why I want to add one in the Draft next year if possible.

(12-23-2021, 08:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Trey Flowers is a much better matchup with TE's, he is way bigger and better in coverage than Bell who is a run stopper
and an enforcer who loves to punch the ball out. I know Kittle destroyed us but that was more cause of his great hard
catches he kept making and Jimmy G is a wizard in the middle of the field. Flowers handled Andrews well the last time
we played him. Sometimes the QB and TE are just too good no matter how you play them like was the case with Kittle.

Kelce will give us trouble, he gives everybody trouble. Kittle also had more yards in the game before he played us.

Some dudes are just beasts of TE's, which is why I want to add one in the Draft next year if possible.

Easier said than done to spot those guys though. Did anyone think Kittle or Kelce become what they are now? Fant and Hockenson were highly touted (Kittle maybe played a role in that?), but they're not game changers... Yet anyway. Gresham looked the part, but along comes Gronk. Pitts was billed as the GOAT, and he might still be. I was thrilled when they drafted Eifert...

Tight end is so tough to call.

(12-23-2021, 08:33 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: The one real true weakness we have is covering the tight ends, we all know that so I won't continue to beat a dead horse..I am simply talking solutions moving forward and just thinking to myself I think I came away with something worth a try..


Since we've been depleted at the linebacker position lately I think we should move von bell to linebacker position and let trae waynes play some safety;his job would simply be press coverage one on one with the mark andrews and Travis kelces of the world..

We would still be able to mix it up and give different looks but on money downs I would match him one on one with the tight end..

Well last two years we have done good enough with Andrews, he averaged about 7 to 8 catches for less than 50 yards and only 1 TD in 3 games

(12-23-2021, 08:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Trey Flowers is a much better matchup with TE's, he is way bigger and better in coverage than Bell who is a run stopper
and an enforcer who loves to punch the ball out. I know Kittle destroyed us but that was more cause of his great hard
catches he kept making and Jimmy G is a wizard in the middle of the field. Flowers handled Andrews well the last time
we played him. Sometimes the QB and TE are just too good no matter how you play them like was the case with Kittle.

Kelce will give us trouble, he gives everybody trouble. Kittle also had more yards in the game before he played us.

Some dudes are just beasts of TE's, which is why I want to add one in the Draft next year if possible.

Flowers is not physical enough, on the critical 3rd and 5 against sf he played off coverage..waynes is both fast enough and physical enough to handle these tight ends in man coverage in my opinion..

The best way to stop any tight end is to sack the quarterback, hurry the quarterback, or force the quarterback to throw the ball away. Then he can’t throw it to anybody...

(12-23-2021, 10:54 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The best way to stop any tight end is to sack the quarterback, hurry the quarterback, or force the quarterback to throw the ball away.  Then he can’t throw it to anybody...

That's what happened in Baltimore this year, and it's gonna happen again..

A few times we also left the middle of the field WIDE open and just let Kittle catch crossing routes or posts (If I remember correctly).

I was thinking "WTF! He's their biggest weapon and the player you have to focus your attention on stopping.........."

I might have posted it in the Game Day thread on here?

That was just horrible coaching.

I really don't know what the solution is but it seems like it has been a problem dating all the way back to Marvin...........

I don't know, but I thought we played ok the last time we played them.

(12-23-2021, 11:51 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I don't know, but I thought we played ok the last time we played them.

That’s true. Against the Ravens earlier in the season the Bengals’ defense did a credible job against tight end Mark Andrews. Most of this effort, I believe, came from consistently putting pressure on Lamar Jackson. However, we must give the secondary due credit because they limited the Baltimore passing attack — including Andrews — with the exception of the long touchdown bomb to Hollywood Brown.

(12-23-2021, 11:46 PM)BFritz21 A few times we also left the middle of the field WIDE open and just let Kittle catch crossing routes or posts (If I remember correctly). Wrote: I was thinking "WTF! He's their biggest weapon and the player you have to focus your attention on stopping.........."

I might have posted it in the Game Day thread on here?

That was just horrible coaching.

I really don't know what the solution is but it seems like it has been a problem dating all the way back to Marvin...........

This wasn't by intentional design, obviously. They were likely just playing zone coverage and you were seeing Kittle pass through zones. These DCs really, really know their stuff and they aren't going to forget about someone like Kittle. For instance, here are a couple of screenshots from Kittle's touchdown, which was a crossing route. 

Here is Bachie grabbing Kittle as he crosses the middle of the field...


However, Bachie has to drop off because of a delayed angle/crosser out of the backfield....



Now, Jimmy can't quite throw this ball yet because he is reading Chido. He can either throw it low to Kittle or throw it high to Deebo? Not sure who the top receiver is, but you get the point. Chido steps towards Deebo, leaving Kittle open and Jimmy hits him for the touchdown. Now, there was a play where Kittle got open on a post for 16 yard gain, and he was wide open, but that was because they ran cover 0 and rushed six. Just being aggressive and it bit them in the ass. 

Another play in OT had Kittle open over the middle for an eight yard gain but it was a block and release. 

via GIPHY

I don't think any of these are "horrible" coaching - you can argue that the blitz was a dubious call but that ends up being an argument about the result itself, not necessarily the call. If Jimmy was sacked, it'd be a great call, it's just a risk/reward thing. DC's know what they are doing, but so do OC's and the 49ers had counters. 

(12-24-2021, 10:41 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: This wasn't by intentional design, obviously. They were likely just playing zone coverage and you were seeing Kittle pass through zones. These DCs really, really know their stuff and they aren't going to forget about someone like Kittle. For instance, here are a couple of screenshots from Kittle's touchdown, which was a crossing route. 

Here is Bachie grabbing Kittle as he crosses the middle of the field...


However, Bachie has to drop off because of a delayed angle/crosser out of the backfield....



Now, Jimmy can't quite throw this ball yet because he is reading Chido. He can either throw it low to Kittle or throw it high to Deebo? Not sure who the top receiver is, but you get the point. Chido steps towards Deebo, leaving Kittle open and Jimmy hits him for the touchdown. Now, there was a play where Kittle got open on a post for 16 yard gain, and he was wide open, but that was because they ran cover 0 and rushed six. Just being aggressive and it bit them in the ass. 

Another play in OT had Kittle open over the middle for an eight yard gain but it was a block and release. 

via GIPHY

I don't think any of these are "horrible" coaching - you can argue that the blitz was a dubious call but that ends up being an argument about the result itself, not necessarily the call. If Jimmy was sacked, it'd be a great call, it's just a risk/reward thing. DC's know what they are doing, but so do OC's and the 49ers had counters. 

Fair enough......  VERY NICE RESEARCH!

Even if you're right about them not being bad play calls (I think you're right), I still think the coaching needed to make sure the defense had at least one player spying Kittle and shadowing him. The players should have known that Kittle wasn't going to be blocking on that pass play, especially since it's not like he set up in a blocking stance because he was just kind of wondering out in front of the line.

Like I said, though, VERY NICE POST!

(12-23-2021, 08:33 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: The one real true weakness we have is covering the tight ends, we all know that so I won't continue to beat a dead horse..I am simply talking solutions moving forward and just thinking to myself I think I came away with something worth a try..


Since we've been depleted at the linebacker position lately I think we should move von bell to linebacker position and let trae waynes play some safety;his job would simply be press coverage one on one with the mark andrews and Travis kelces of the world..

We would still be able to mix it up and give different looks but on money downs I would match him one on one with the tight end..

I get this, as it seems the other team's biggest threat is rarely taken away by this defense.  Adams went off.  Kittle went off.  

Tony Pike was mentioning this about Anarumo during this week's shows.  If Belicheck is the best coach of all time, why not copy his "take away their best threat" attack?  


Well, here is my rationale for doing what they are doing:  They may not have the personnel to shut down a guy like Andrews (although he only had 3 grabs for 48 yards the first time they played...I do remember some drops, too) and risk creating an opening elsewhere.  

The defense has not been the reason they lost with the exception of one, maybe two games:  The Jets and Browns.  I already mentioned that they had three consecutive road games leading up to that Jets game, and the Colts had a similar collapse against the Ravens  (up 12 in the fourth quarter to lose) on their third road game.

The easiest way for the Bengals to lose is to turn the ball over.  They have ONE loss where they turned the ball over fewer that two times.  Basically, if they can avoid turnovers, they likley win.  

(12-23-2021, 08:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Trey Flowers is a much better matchup with TE's, he is way bigger and better in coverage than Bell who is a run stopper
and an enforcer who loves to punch the ball out. I know Kittle destroyed us but that was more cause of his great hard
catches he kept making and Jimmy G is a wizard in the middle of the field. Flowers handled Andrews well the last time
we played him. Sometimes the QB and TE are just too good no matter how you play them like was the case with Kittle.

Kelce will give us trouble, he gives everybody trouble. Kittle also had more yards in the game before he played us.

Some dudes are just beasts of TE's, which is why I want to add one in the Draft next year if possible.

Funny you mentioned this.  I was surprised we didn't see more of Flowers on Kittle after how he played Andrews.  It is a really good point.

One thing that could go a long way is not giving them (the TEs) a free release.  That makes that quick throws easy and high %.  Re-route them and force them to get loose and you can throw off the timing. 

(12-23-2021, 11:46 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: A few times we also left the middle of the field WIDE open and just let Kittle catch crossing routes or posts (If I remember correctly).

I was thinking "WTF! He's their biggest weapon and the player you have to focus your attention on stopping.........."

I might have posted it in the Game Day thread on here?

That was just horrible coaching.

I really don't know what the solution is but it seems like it has been a problem dating all the way back to Marvin...........

I think the Bengals stategy in that game was to stop the wideouts like Deebo (which they did as recieving threat) and left Kittle to kill us all day. 
I do like Flowers in this role, hes 6-3 and 200 ish # and seems to cover these guys well.  
So whos the next George Kittle or Kelce in draft? we could use a guy like that.  

(12-23-2021, 09:15 PM)jason Wrote: Easier said than done to spot those guys though. Did anyone think Kittle or Kelce become what they are now? Fant and Hockenson were highly touted (Kittle maybe played a role in that?), but they're not game changers... Yet anyway. Gresham looked the part, but along comes Gronk. Pitts was billed as the GOAT, and he might still be. I was thrilled when they drafted Eifert...

Tight end is so tough to call.

Well said.  Many members criticize the fact that a top tier TE has a good day against us, when those guys do it against EVERY team they face.  The elite guys are elite for a reason, and there is a reason that there is a mindset that every QB needs a solid TE he can rely on.

(12-24-2021, 12:03 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I think the Bengals stategy in that game was to stop the wideouts like Deebo (which they did as recieving threat) and left Kittle to kill us all day. 
I do like Flowers in this role, hes 6-3 and 200 ish # and seems to cover these guys well.  
So whos the next George Kittle or Kelce in draft? we could use a guy like that.  

Agreed... I'm all in favor of drafting the next Willie Anderson, and Travis Kelce in the upcoming draft. I'd also like the next Trayvon Diggs. Make it happen whoever's in charge of such things.

I'm pretty sure I heard Mark Andrews coughing the other day...

Outside of the Reggie Nelson years, Cincy has sucked covering TEs and RBs since about 1991.