(12-28-2021, 11:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just curious, but what exactly did Burrow accomplish in his first 4 years of college when he did not have an all-time record number of NFL draft picks starting around him? *Hint* he was the 12th rated QB in the 14 team SEC his junior year.
And what did he do last year without elite talent around him?
Meanwhile Dalton also went undefeated his senior year and TCU finished ranked #2 in the nation despite Dalton only having 2 other NFL players on the entire team.
(12-27-2021, 09:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am sure you took a lot of flack for this thread. Burrow is definitely a different type of QB though.
You would have to be blind not to see it.
yes I have....and thanks for the normal response. I felt like I was on a reddit sub and some wanted to down vote me for stating the obvious at least in my mind and many others. I was not looking to bash Dalton , I am only stating my personal opinion after watching this team since 1975 and it just feels different when you have a certain type of of QB and AD was not one of those. ...for me at least.
I have much respect for what AD brought and he is a class act as we all know....but come playoff time I never got that "vibe" from him being THEEEEE GUY to take us deep onto playoffs and hopefully a SB. Others can disagee with me and thats OK ...we all are entitled to our opinions.
A simple question for the downvoters: AD or Joe? and if AD PLEASE EXPLAIN
Rodgers, Wilson and Watson may all become available for the 2022 season. The off-season QB market will be run by these three more than normal off-seasons because this is a projected weak QB draft class and I don't think that any of the three want to play behind a porous offensive line with a bad defense. Teams with an o-line like that need a veteran with a quick release to help their young and very promising receiver group.
The Dalton haters club can't stand the fact that he is 2-0 in games that he has started against Cincinnati. They may get more chances to hate him in the near future as the Pittsburgh Steelers placeholder QB for two or three years as they build up their line, fix their defense and THEN they can attract a good FA QB or groom Ben Worthlesswigger's eventual real replacement in the next draft or two.
(12-28-2021, 12:17 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Rodgers, Wilson and Watson may all become available for the 2022 season. The off-season QB market will be run by these three more than normal off-seasons because this is a projected weak QB draft class and I don't think that any of the three want to play behind a porous offensive line with a bad defense. Teams with an o-line like that need a veteran with a quick release to help their young and very promising receiver group.
The Dalton haters club can't stand the fact that he is 2-0 in games that he has started against Cincinnati. They may get more chances to hate him in the near future as the Pittsburgh Steelers placeholder QB for two or three years as they build up their line, fix their defense and THEN they can attract a good FA QB or groom Ben Worthlesswigger's eventual real replacement in the next draft or two.
I just don't see Rodgers leaving Green Bay, and I have my doubts Watson will ever play another down in the NFL. Wilson coming to the AFCN is a scary thought. Head to head, I think the Bengals could handle him, but he would lead his team to a lot of wins and make winning the Division all that much harder.
(12-28-2021, 03:42 AM)rankrank1 Wrote: In fairness to Andy his draft year was 2011 and 2011 was the year of the owner lockout if I am not mistaken. Andy did not have anywhere near the luxury of a traditional offseason workouts or preseason time with coaches that would have been very beneficial to any rookie. I was always impressed with Andy for doing as well as he did with out that usual prep time his rookie year.
Yes, Dalton missed out on Spring Training and off season OTAs. But he had the playbook, could watch all the film he wanted, and could train with teammates as much as he wanted. And he did get a full training camp with four preseason games before anyone started collecting stats that counted.
And speaking of stats, besides having the support of a much better defense, Dalton debuted with a much better offensive line featuring Whitworth, Smith, and Williams along with (cough) Livings and Cook. Dalton took just 24 sacks all season while Burrow was sacked 32 times in just 11 games.
Andy Dalton joined a much better team than Joe Burrow. The Bengals didn't need a complete rebuild in 2011 because they didn't have the talent to win. They had a meltdown in leadership.
I'm not dissing Dalton in any way. I was happy with the pick at the time and even in hindsight it was clearly our best option. His start was impressive for a rookie. I still think that we had good reason to hope that he could deliver on one of those playoff trips. It's just a pity that he missed out on what would have been his best opportunity in '15.
Quote:Fair or not my expectations are way different for a Number 1 overall pick as compared to a rather late 2nd round pick. Comparing Burrow to Andy is pointless and ragging on Andy serves no purpose at all. I like Burrow better than any QB to ever wear a Bengal uniform so far. I am old enough to have seen most of them from Anderson till now. Kenny Anderson would be my 2nd choice as next best Bengal QB hands down.
Dalton was the 35th pick that year. Not much different than a late first round pick. Funny how many of the QBs picked before Dalton in '11 actually fell below the Dalton Line.
I don't consider it to be ragging on Andy to just observe that Joe Burrow is just on another level.
(12-28-2021, 12:11 PM)kalibengal Wrote: yes I have....and thanks for the normal response. I felt like I was on a reddit sub and some wanted to down vote me for stating the obvious at least in my mind and many others. I was not looking to bash Dalton , I am only stating my personal opinion after watching this team since 1975 and it just feels different when you have a certain type of of QB and AD was not one of those. ...for me at least.
I have much respect for what AD brought and he is a class act as we all know....but come playoff time I never got that "vibe" from him being THEEEEE GUY to take us deep onto playoffs and hopefully a SB. Others can disagee with me and thats OK ...we all are entitled to our opinions.
A simple question for the downvoters: AD or Joe? and if AD PLEASE EXPLAIN
You are welcome Kalibengal.
Yeah, I know Dalton won the Rose Bowl at TCU which gave me hope that he could win big games. But he never really did it that
much in the Pros. I know he was better in the bright lights than Palmer but that isn't saying much. I have much more trust in Joe
Burrow late in the game and in clutch situations already, we will see how he does this next game against KC who is a top team in
the NFL right now that has won 8 games in a row.
I have confidence in Burrow and our Defense to keep it close, we just need to win the turnover war and take care of the football
while pressuring Mahomes and we can win. Mahomes and Kelce WILL get theirs though, they are THAT good.
(12-28-2021, 04:07 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Umm…Goff is in his 6th year. Burrow was a captain as a rookie. Now, maybe it doesn’t mean that much since QB’s like your boy Sunshine and Zach Wilson were also named captains as rookies (and both have been completely terrible), but no - - not all rookie QB’s are just automatically captains so they can “control the huddle.” Dalton was not a captain as a rookie. And I only brought it up because Fred argued it wasn’t going to happen with Burrow either. But anyone that was even remotely familiar with him knew he would be.
That's why I said most not all.
But when you are the rookie QB being brought to a team with a young head coach and they just dumped the veteran and are going in a new direction, you are 100% going to be a captain.
Most of the time when a rookie QB isn't a captain, it's due to strong leadership elsewhere on the team. The Bengals certainly were lacking in that during the transition phase.
My point with Goff is that, just because a guy is a captain doesn't mean he is a good player. Not saying that Joe isn't great, he has really come into his own now as he gets further and further away from the injury.
Also, you are arguing with Fred.... you know how that is going to end, yet you are still doing it?
(12-28-2021, 11:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just curious, but what exactly did Burrow accomplish in his first 4 years of college when he did not have an all-time record number of NFL draft picks starting around him? *Hint* he was the 12th rated QB in the 14 team SEC his junior year.
You're the master of meaningless facts and figures. Was this a rhetorical question? Because everyone who is paying attention knows that Joe Burrow created that 2019 LSU team during the 2018 season. He capped it with a Fiesta Bowl win that showed that he was the clear leader and the heart and soul of the team that would win the Championship in '19.
I'll leave this here since you have such a short memory.
Quote:And what did he do last year without elite talent around him?
Ended rookie season 65.3% completion rate and 89.9 rating. (better than Dalton)
Ended season on pace to break multiple team and NFL rookie passing records.
Topped 300 yards passing in five of his 10 starts.
At the time of his injury was just 97 yards shy of tying then-NFL rookie record of six 300-yard games in a season
Five 300-yard passing games tied single-season Bengals record
Became first rookie in NFL history to pass for 300 yards in three consecutive games
At Cleveland, his 61 attempts were second-most in team history (most in non-OT game), and his 37 completions tied the second-most ever by a Bengal
Had just the sixth 400-yard passing game by a rookie in NFL history.
First player in league history (of any experience) to record 400 passing yards, three passing TDs and one rushing TD in a game
Quote:Meanwhile Dalton also went undefeated his senior year and TCU finished ranked #2 in the nation despite Dalton only having 2 other NFL players on the entire team.
Andy Dalton was a good quarterback. He'll never be a great quarterback. Joe Burrow could be a great quarterback.
(12-28-2021, 05:28 PM)Roland Wrote: You're the master of meaningless facts and figures. Was this a rhetorical question? Because everyone who is paying attention knows that Joe Burrow created that 2019 LSU team during the 2018 season.
I am a big SEC fan. I know more about how he played than 99% of the people here who never even heard of him before 2019 (as anything other than a back up at OSU)
If Joe "created the 2019 LSU team in 2018 then why did they lose their last regular season game to Texas A&M? Wouldn't the 2019 LSU team have won that game? He failed to throw a single td in 6 of his 13 games. He failed to throw for 200 yards in 7 of 13 games.
(12-28-2021, 06:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am a big SEC fan. I know more about how he played than 99% of the people here who never even heard of him before 2019 (as anything other than a back up at OSU)
If Joe "created the 2019 LSU team in 2018 then why did they lose their last regular season game to Texas A&M? Wouldn't the 2019 LSU team have won that game? He failed to throw a single td in 6 of his 13 games. He failed to throw for 200 yards in 7 of 13 games.
Walk the talk "overly relies on stats guy" to belittle other posters. Demonstrate this statement has any truth.
(12-28-2021, 06:53 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Walk the talk "overly relies on stats guy" to belittle other posters. Demonstrate this statement has any truth.
Toast likes to play devils advocate on alot of topics ...deep down he knows Joey B is better QB than AD. He just cant come out and AGREE with something so simple and obvious
(12-28-2021, 06:53 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Walk the talk "overly relies on stats guy" to belittle other posters. Demonstrate this statement has any truth.
The SEC is the most watched conference in college football. They get a ton of the primetime slots.
Now if he said I know more about the MAC or the MWC than 99% of the people Id almost believe him but the SEC? Not a chance.
(12-28-2021, 05:28 PM)Roland Wrote: You're the master of meaningless facts and figures. Was this a rhetorical question? Because everyone who is paying attention knows that Joe Burrow created that 2019 LSU team during the 2018 season. He capped it with a Fiesta Bowl win that showed that he was the clear leader and the heart and soul of the team that would win the Championship in '19.
I'll leave this here since you have such a short memory.
Ended rookie season 65.3% completion rate and 89.9 rating. (better than Dalton)
Ended season on pace to break multiple team and NFL rookie passing records.
Topped 300 yards passing in five of his 10 starts.
At the time of his injury was just 97 yards shy of tying then-NFL rookie record of six 300-yard games in a season
Five 300-yard passing games tied single-season Bengals record
Became first rookie in NFL history to pass for 300 yards in three consecutive games
At Cleveland, his 61 attempts were second-most in team history (most in non-OT game), and his 37 completions tied the second-most ever by a Bengal
Had just the sixth 400-yard passing game by a rookie in NFL history.
First player in league history (of any experience) to record 400 passing yards, three passing TDs and one rushing TD in a game
Andy Dalton was a good quarterback. He'll never be a great quarterback. Joe Burrow could be a great quarterback.
Joe Burrow was a late bloomer... Doesn't matter how or why. Dude's the shit now.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
(12-28-2021, 12:17 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Rodgers, Wilson and Watson may all become available for the 2022 season. The off-season QB market will be run by these three more than normal off-seasons because this is a projected weak QB draft class and I don't think that any of the three want to play behind a porous offensive line with a bad defense. Teams with an o-line like that need a veteran with a quick release to help their young and very promising receiver group.
The Dalton haters club can't stand the fact that he is 2-0 in games that he has started against Cincinnati. They may get more chances to hate him in the near future as the Pittsburgh Steelers placeholder QB for two or three years as they build up their line, fix their defense and THEN they can attract a good FA QB or groom Ben Worthlesswigger's eventual real replacement in the next draft or two.
You are out of your mind if you think he is starting anywhere again, unless because of injury. Pittsburgh would melt down. They laugh at him..
(12-28-2021, 06:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am a big SEC fan. I know more about how he played than 99% of the people here who never even heard of him before 2019 (as anything other than a back up at OSU)
If Joe "created the 2019 LSU team in 2018 then why did they lose their last regular season game to Texas A&M? Wouldn't the 2019 LSU team have won that game? He failed to throw a single td in 6 of his 13 games. He failed to throw for 200 yards in 7 of 13 games.
Ya, because Joe could never work hard and get better. None of your BS means anything.. Kid has over 4000 yards and 30 tds coming of a major injury and you are still talking shit...
(12-28-2021, 10:34 PM)Tony Wrote: Ya, because, Joe could never work hard and get better. None of your BS means anything.. Kid has over 4000 yards and 30 tds coming of a major injury and you are still talking shit...
You’d almost think that’s kinda his thing…
He went from one of the worst deep ball passers in the league to #1 in one offseason.
(12-28-2021, 03:22 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: No full preseason, just the games, that was the year of the lockout. New offensive coordinator too. Chad was gone, the team was 4-12 the year prior, and a lot of the media were predicting 0-16. There were more similarities than folks remember.
Yeah there's some revisionist history going on.
Dalton didn't even get a playbook until right before preseason.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(12-28-2021, 10:50 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah there's some revisionist history going on.
Dalton didn't even get a playbook until right before preseason.
Really? Says who?
"Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Jordan Palmer, right, holds a play book
for rookie quarterback Andy Dalton, center, and receiver Jordan Shipley
during a players organized football workout, Wednesday, June 15, 2011
at the University of Cincinnati in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)
Al Behrman"
"Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Jordan Palmer, right, holds a play book
for rookie quarterback Andy Dalton, center, and receiver Jordan Shipley
during a players organized football workout, Wednesday, June 15, 2011
at the University of Cincinnati in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)
Al Behrman"
"That task is even harder given the roadblocks to their development. Rookies have no access to coaches, film or the very training facilities that they will call home for the next few years. Most don't even have playbooks, unless they were lucky enough to be first-round picks. Those players were able to get playbooks when they visited their teams on the second day of the draft, the only period when the lockout was temporarily lifted following an injunction granted to players by U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson on April 25."
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