(01-03-2022, 05:34 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Flowers played tremendous against Kelce. I could have sworn Kelce had like 8 catches the first 25 minutes of the game but he only was 5 for 25 for the game with basically zero yards after the catch for the galloping Kelce which is 39% of his career YPC. Greatest game in the Bengals history defending a top notch TE.

He caught a big one that came back from penalty. He also had another big one that he just outright dropped. Then the announcer kept calling the big white TE wearing 81 Kelce, who is clearly a DIFFERENT big white TE wearing 87. Lol... all that combined did make it seem like he was everywhere.

As for Flowers, I wouldn't be giving him a ton of credit for the D stopping Kelce. He was on the field for just 13 snaps (21%) against the Chiefs. So for 4 of every 5 plays, he was on the sideline. He's been pretty exclusively a ST guy for the Bengals.

(01-03-2022, 06:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He caught a big one that came back from penalty. He also had another big one that he just outright dropped. Then the announcer kept calling the big white TE wearing 81 Kelce, who is clearly a DIFFERENT big white TE wearing 87. Lol... all that combined did make it seem like he was everywhere.

As for Flowers, I wouldn't be giving him a ton of credit for the D stopping Kelce. He was on the field for just 13 snaps (21%) against the Chiefs. So for 4 of every 5 plays, he was on the sideline. He's been pretty exclusively a ST guy for the Bengals.

They were mainly using him for obvious passing situations, although I did think it was odd he was in on the goal line. It was a very similar deployment to how they used him against Andrews when we played the Ravens.

(01-03-2022, 05:34 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Flowers played tremendous against Kelce. I could have sworn Kelce had like 8 catches the first 25 minutes of the game but he only was 5 for 25 for the game with basically zero yards after the catch for the galloping Kelce which is 39% of his career YPC. Greatest game in the Bengals history defending a top notch TE.

Yeah... It seemed like he did more because of the TD, and those coupla long catches to Bell. 81 looks a lot like 87 sometimes. I always struggled with that with Chad and Chris Henry.

Someone did something right because Travis Kelce is the type of player who usually gives the Bengals fits, yet he was relatively quiet yesterday.

(01-03-2022, 05:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: Flowers was a safety coming out, 6'3 205 that makes sense, and they converted him to CB because he had 4.4 speed and the coaches liked tall corners at the time. It wasn't the right move and in the new positionless NFL I think he has a place doing exactly this, covering guys who are too big for normal corners or too fast for normal linebackers.

I agree. 

We have a lot of openings in the secondary. 

At corner, Awuzie & Hilton are locked up. But Apple is a FA and we can save $11 million by cutting Waynes. Everyone else is a FA (Phillips, Davis, Hargreaves, Flowers). 

Half the safeties are FAs. Bates & Allen. Bell & Wilson signed. 

I think Flowers is useful as a hybrid CB/S covering TEs and big receivers. Niche guy, but a useful niche. 

I'm not super surprised that Flowers did well against a TE.
He has great size (6"3", 203 lb) and 4.45 speed.
He's better against someone bigger and slower compared to a smaller, fast WR like Hill or Chase.
He could be a role player beyond this year if they wanna keep him, but I wouldn't want or expect him to be a primary boundary CB.

(01-03-2022, 06:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not super surprised that Flowers did well against a TE.
He has great size (6"3", 203 lb) and 4.45 speed.
He's better against someone bigger and slower compared to a smaller, fast WR like Hill or Chase.
He could be a role player beyond this year if they wanna keep him, but I wouldn't want or expect him to be a primary boundary CB.

Right. He’s best suited to not have to cover guys like Tyreek Hill or route technicians like Keenan Allen.

(01-03-2022, 06:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not super surprised that Flowers did well against a TE.
He has great size (6"3", 203 lb) and 4.45 speed.
He's better against someone bigger and slower compared to a smaller, fast WR like Hill or Chase.
He could be a role player beyond this year if they wanna keep him, but I wouldn't want or expect him to be a primary boundary CB.

Right, he has kind of assumed the role we thought a guy like Ricardo Allen would do. I think him being a hybrid S/CB next year would be a worthwhile experiment. Give him the same deal we gave Allen, 1 year 1.5 million and see how it goes.

(01-03-2022, 07:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right, he has kind of assumed the role we thought a guy like Ricardo Allen would do. I think him being a hybrid S/CB next year would be a worthwhile experiment. Give him the same deal we gave Allen, 1 year 1.5 million and see how it goes.

Safety is probably a better fit for him, honestly. He was a safety in college and had some athletic limitations.
Not really a true CB, at least for the NFL.

(01-03-2022, 05:43 PM)Joelist Wrote: It was shades of when Zim put Leon Hall man to man on the opposing TEs late one season, and we actually got a couple of pick sixes out of that coverage,.

2012, he was covering Heath Miller when he pick6-ed Berger.

(01-03-2022, 06:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, wasn't Jacksonville trying to use him as a corner?

(01-03-2022, 06:26 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I don't really remember Sled, I just remember him being labeled as a bust and underperforming. That was certainly not the case here, and I was a little miffed they let him go to OAK.

And it was BECAUSE they played him at CB.

Came here, moved to S et voila!

(01-03-2022, 06:20 PM)Wyche Wrote: Wow! I had no idea we shut him down like that! I was like you, thought he had more production than that. Nice game Tre. Nice wrinkle from Lou and the staff. You can never shut all of the Chiefs down, but to shut down TK, just wow.

We didn't let Tyreek Hill get any yards either.

(01-03-2022, 07:41 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 2012, he was covering Heath Miller when he pick6-ed Berger.



And it was BECAUSE they played him at CB.

Came here, moved to S et voila!

Ah...thanks for the refresher. That explains a helluva lot.

(01-03-2022, 07:43 PM)sandwedge Wrote: We didn't let Tyreek Hill get any yards either.

So you're saying we "Hoodie'd" them? Taking away your biggest threats and making them beat you with the other guys? I didn't even look at the stats, and to be fair, those "other guys" almost did beat us.

Reggie Nelson was highway robbery. Just this last offseason while right now we think of Flowers how about Awuzie? They went out and got him based on the notion that he was a better fit in our system - and to put it lightly he has been. Then there is BJ Hill...

(01-03-2022, 05:34 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Flowers played tremendous against Kelce. I could have sworn Kelce had like 8 catches the first 25 minutes of the game but he only was 5 for 25 for the game with basically zero yards after the catch for the galloping Kelce which is 39% of his career YPC. Greatest game in the Bengals history defending a top notch TE.

Was thinking same thing every time Bell caught the ball and confusing him with Kelce. 

Kudos to Flowers because Kelce was my biggest concern going into this game. 

(01-03-2022, 06:17 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Lou said prior to the game, they have thrown the kitchen sink and tried about everything as far as covering elite TE's. I think he finally hit on it.

Sometimes coaching is simple.

Hype a guy up all week tell him you believe in him.



No coach gameplan is gonna stop a Kelce. At a certain point you just gotta cover him

(01-03-2022, 07:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right, he has kind of assumed the role we thought a guy like Ricardo Allen would do. I think him being a hybrid S/CB next year would be a worthwhile experiment. Give him the same deal we gave Allen, 1 year 1.5 million and see how it goes.

Not sure a 5'9, 186lb safety (who ran a 4.61 over 7 years ago) was ever going to be able to hang in the AFCN.

(01-03-2022, 06:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, wasn't Jacksonville trying to use him as a corner?

His time in Jacksonville was weird. He started every season being named the starting FS. His last couple of seasons saw him getting used at CB for some reason. Even when it was clear it wasn't working, they kept at it.

Nelson was Marvin's target in the 07 draft. He was so close to being the pick because Marvin didn't believe Leon Hall would make it to our pick. 

(01-03-2022, 05:42 PM)kalibengal Wrote: exactly wat I thought when they first snagged him.... we will need more of this in Playoffs, with possible seeing Waller, Knox , Kelce again etc.

And when we play Gronk in the SB