To answer the question: Can We Make A Run With This O-Line?

Joe Burrow certainly is. He's running a LOT.

(01-03-2022, 11:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Wasn't that good? Forget the random LSU fan, but it doesn't mean we have to ignore this.... It produced 3 guys on NFL rosters (2 starters), 1 guy still on practice squads, 1 guy with a cup of coffee in the NFL, and 1 pending this coming draft. All playing on one OL in college. That's an absurd amount of talent to have on one college roster.


We do? By what measure?

Our QB is leading the league in sacks.
The rushing offense is 26th in YPC.

Hopkins is the 34th rated C.
Prince is the 60th rated T.
Carman is the 63rd rated G.
Adeniji is the 83rd rated G.
Reiff was the 50th rated T.

Spain has had a good year, and Jonah is pretty alright. Two guys doesn't make an average OL.

Why no rankings for Spain & Jonah? I am curious to see where they grade out. How about Fred Johnson? 

Hopkins was terrible early on the gimpy knee.  He has been better lately. The fact that he is almost 8nto the top 32 is amazing. He is avout Reiff level for Cs. Adequate but not a long term solution.  

This is Jonah's first full season. I think he'll continue to improve.  But he is never gonna be a Munoz/Pace/Thomas type if OT. 

Look, I am not saying OL should not be a priority.  It should be THE priority. Along with retaining some of our own guys. 3 starters on each side a FAs (Spain, CJ, Reiff; Bates, Apple, Ogunjobi), plus BJ Hill & Tupou. 

But I fear that the organization, with some justification, may not go after Tier 1 FAs. There are not that many (Brown, Schreff, +???) and thise guys may get tagged.  Sometimes interior OL guys can be had for cheap. The Browns got Teller (and a 7th) for a 5th round pick and a 6th.  He is in the Pro-Bowl. 

(01-04-2022, 01:02 AM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: What’s wrong with that? I’m a bengals “fan” I’m just not a born and bred fan. You need to realize what Burrow did for LSU, it was the most magical season we’ve ever had and he’s probably the most likable person we could’ve possibly had at QB.

Imagine yall winning the Super Bowl this year. Multiply that by 10. That’s who Burrow is to LSU fans. 

I'm an LSU fan. Have been for over a decade (as I have no college affiliation, being in Canada. Chose them because Whitworth is my favourite player ever).

I know, trust me.

(01-04-2022, 12:53 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Why no rankings for Spain & Jonah? I am curious to see where they grade out. How about Fred Johnson? 

Hopkins was terrible early on the gimpy knee.  He has been better lately. The fact that he is almost 8nto the top 32 is amazing. He is avout Reiff level for Cs. Adequate but not a long term solution.  

This is Jonah's first full season. I think he'll continue to improve.  But he is never gonna be a Munoz/Pace/Thomas type if OT. 

Look, I am not saying OL should not be a priority.  It should be THE priority. Along with retaining some of our own guys. 3 starters on each side a FAs (Spain, CJ, Reiff; Bates, Apple, Ogunjobi), plus BJ Hill & Tupou. 

But I fear that the organization, with some justification, may not go after Tier 1 FAs. There are not that many (Brown, Schreff, +???) and thise guys may get tagged.  Sometimes interior OL guys can be had for cheap. The Browns got Teller (and a 7th) for a 5th round pick and a 6th.  He is in the Pro-Bowl. 

Spain 19th, Jonah 21st. As I said, good, but again that doesn't make an average OL. 

Fred Johnson hasn't played enough to qualify for a ranking. Same reason I didn't mention D'Ante Smith, Xavier Su'a-Filo, or Trey Hill.

No, it really is not. He is 34th out of 38. There is nothing amazing about that, nor adequate. 

Teller is more like a Brady situation. It happened but that does not mean it's common, and it certainly shouldn't be considered an actual strategy to expect happen again anytime soon.

(01-04-2022, 02:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Spain 19th, Jonah 21st. As I said, good, but again that doesn't make an average OL. 

Fred Johnson hasn't played enough to qualify for a ranking. Same reason I didn't mention D'Ante Smith, Xavier Su'a-Filo, or Trey Hill.

No, it really is not. He is 34th out of 38. There is nothing amazing about that, nor adequate. 

Teller is more like a Brady situation. It happened but that does not mean it's common, and it certainly shouldn't be considered an actual strategy to expect happen again anytime soon.

I agree, but Hopkins poor rating takes into account the entire season, and he was really bad before the bye. Since then, he has made pretty noticeable strides. The fact that he's only 34th shows just how bad he was to start the year. He's.... serviceable. He'd be fantastic depth.

Seeing as we are making a run with this line right now the answer has to be Yes.

That does not mean that pass protection does not need improvement in the offseason. We need starter quality vets for C and RG and we need to give all the backs and TEs dedicated coaching on pass rusher pickup and blocking.

(01-04-2022, 02:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree, but Hopkins poor rating takes into account the entire season, and he was really bad before the bye. Since then, he has made pretty noticeable strides. The fact that he's only 34th shows just how bad he was to start the year. He's.... serviceable. He'd be fantastic depth.

Wyche, I just want to point out that we've gone from "we have an average OL" which is what I was replying to.... to now you and IC complimenting a guy calling him "amazing" and saying "noticeable strides" that he's 34th out of 38 at his position. 

The OL needs several upgrades. They need to sign a big time LT in FA and drop Reiff and move Williams to RT. Then draft a guard or center with their late first pick.


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(01-04-2022, 03:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Wyche, I just want to point out that we've gone from "we have an average OL" which is what I was replying to.... to now you and IC complimenting a guy calling him "amazing" and saying "noticeable strides" that he's 34th out of 38 at his position. 

I never called him amazing....lol. I even said somewhere he'd make a great *depth* player. Anyway, someone posted some PFF numbers on here last week since the bye on Hopkins and it was quite the eye opener. It might even be in this thread somewhere. That's all I was saying bro....I even led my reply with "I agree".

The oline is probably slightly below average, and that needs improved, but at the same time, it's actually a shit ton better than it's been over the last three years. That's pretty sad.  

The mental mistakes of Jackson Carman could've very well cost the game. Now I wasn't a huge fan of the selection but he had his moments of being solid specifically against Pittsburgh. They limited the snaps for a reason but its the game reps that are invaluable for a young lineman. In this situation with a lack of depth and in playoff game intensity a guy like XSF could be of value at either guard spot. There aren't many options but thats why you bought in Pollack to right the ship or at least get guys prepared for battle.

Last few minutes of the game
https://youtu.be/qhRt45jD7ZI

PFF grades can be a joke sometimes. So I am not going to start trashing guys based on those. But I am not here to heap praise on our o-line either.

I think offensive line is probably the hardest position to grade/rank as individuals, but there are some things to look at to grade them as a unit.

Despite having a very good RB and a great passing game to keep the defense honest we are 22nd in rushing yards and 25th in yards per carry. I have often argued that in today's NFL if you have a good short passing game you don't really need to run for a lot of yards, but you have to be able to run to convert in short yardage situations. FootballOutsider's "Power Ranking" for O-lines is based on success rate of runs on third and fourth downs needing 2 yards or less. Bengals currently rank dead last in the league. This will eventually cause a major problem for us. It is so bad that at this point I would consider going empty backfield in those situations. And this problem is pretty much all on the O-line.

(01-04-2022, 05:55 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

The mental mistakes of Jackson Carman could've very well cost the game. Now I wasn't a huge fan of the selection but he had his moments of being solid specifically against Pittsburgh. They limited the snaps for a reason but its the game reps that are invaluable for a young lineman. In this situation with a lack of depth and in playoff game intensity a guy like XSF could be of value at either guard spot. There aren't many options but thats why you bought in Pollack to right the ship or at least get guys prepared for battle.

Last few minutes of the game
https://youtu.be/qhRt45jD7ZI

Well on that video at least there were no mental mistakes by Carman. Just like most of the game the pressure came over Adeniji and Prince. The "hold" was specious at best and also offsetting. And he opened the hole multiple times - had we sneaked behind him we would have been in. But then again I wonder if scoring was really the goal as opposed to bleeding the clock. 

That video showed also clearly that not only did KC hold (which was called) on the play that decided it they should also have drawn a PF - Roughing the Passer as the defender paused, squared up then drove into Burrow post release of the ball. 

Can we make a run with this line? Absolutely, if Burrow plays the way he played the last 2 games.

Is that going to happen? Who knows, but Flacco played out of his mind to win a Super Bowl for the Ravens. IF we run up against a bunch of teams that want to play man to man, then yeah it's possible.

There are years where the best team doesn't win the Super Bowl, rather the team that got hot in the playoffs.

(01-04-2022, 10:34 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: There are years where the best team doesn't win the Super Bowl, rather the team that got hot in the playoffs.

Happens all the time.  Flacco is a great example.

'04 Steelers go 15-1 don't even make the Super Bowl.  Next season they start 7-5.  Win 4 in a row to get in as wild card.  Then win 4 in a row for the Lombardi.

The 16-0 Patriots lost the Super Bowl to a 10 win wildcard team.  Four years later a 13-3 Patriots team lost the Super Bowl to a 9 win wildcard team.

(01-04-2022, 04:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The OL needs several upgrades. They need to sign a big time LT in FA and drop Reiff and move Williams to RT. Then draft a guard or center with their late first pick.


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Tyler Linderbaum is the best college center out there, and he could play center or guard. Started off his time at Iowa as a d-lineman. 
Not sure about tackles available in free agency.

Im not going to worry about this offensive line anymore....Ok wait ... No, I'm not going to worry about that group showing up tomorrow. They've proven that they can be good enough to win a big football game. Its a great line ready for the playoff football. Ok Emeritus now go to bed and get ready for tomorrow.

(01-04-2022, 06:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: PFF grades can be a joke sometimes.  So I am not going to start trashing guys based on those. But I am not here to heap praise on our o-line either.

I think offensive line is probably the hardest position to grade/rank as individuals, but there are some things to look at to grade them as a unit.

Despite having a very good RB and a great passing game to keep the defense honest we are 22nd in rushing yards and 25th in yards per carry.  I have often argued that in today's NFL if you have a good short passing game you don't really need to run for a lot of yards, but you have to be able to run to convert in short yardage situations.  FootballOutsider's "Power Ranking" for O-lines is based on success rate of runs on third and fourth downs needing 2 yards or less.  Bengals currently rank dead last in the league.  This will eventually cause a major problem for us.  It is so bad that at this point I would consider going empty backfield in those situations. And this problem is pretty much all on the O-line.

This is making me very nervous. 

We’ll see tmrw. Cincy pulled the toughest matchup for the questionable o-line

(01-14-2022, 06:33 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: We’ll see tmrw. Cincy pulled the toughest matchup for the questionable o-line

you mean because of the raiders d-line? 

i didn't know they were that good really,

(01-14-2022, 05:59 PM)magikod Wrote: This is making me very nervous. 

Yup that's why a lot of our drives were stalling in the 1st quarter.  Whether it's scripted plays or a commitment to the run we suck when they know it's coming.

With Burrow as the QB put it in his hands as much as possible. I really find it odd and I don't have the stats to look it up.. but I feel like we don't throw it to the flat often to our RB.   If it does go to the flat it's a Screen to Chase