Zimmer is not the answer.. clone of Marvin,, good in regular season but not good in post season

No way imo. He's been a HC for a while now, no guarantees he comes back and is a good DC again. While they were definitely usually good units, I still think 'that Mike Zimmer defence' was often overrated as well. Maybe stats prove me wrong, but I never really felt like they'd take over a game when it mattered the most. Don't turn to the past to find a new path forward for this team. Outside of about 2-3 games, our defence has been pretty decent this year, no reason not to stick with Lou imo.

(01-10-2022, 07:26 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Zimmer is not the answer.. clone of Marvin,, good in regular season but not good in post season

hes probably banging his 20 something yr old GF right now on a beach in fiji

   

Will always have love for Zim but at this point Lou is an asset. Our defense is so improved and I give him all the credit. Even our backups come in and play strong. We should be counting it as a blessing if we can hold on to Lou to be honest. He may wind up with a HC gig one day.

(01-10-2022, 07:42 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: No way imo. He's been a HC for a while now, no guarantees he comes back and is a good DC again. While they were definitely usually good units, I still think 'that Mike Zimmer defence' was often overrated as well. Maybe stats prove me wrong, but I never really felt like they'd take over a game when it mattered the most. Don't turn to the past to find a new path forward for this team. Outside of about 2-3 games, our defence has been pretty decent this year, no reason not to stick with Lou imo.

You're wrong and they do. Here's the scoring defenses he's been a part of with the Bengals/Vikings...

BENGALS
2007: 24th
- - Zimmer Arrives - -
2008: 19th
2009: 6th
2010: 24th
2011: 9th
2012: 8th
2013: 5th
- - Zimmer Leaves - - 
2014: 12th

VIKINGS
2013: 32nd
- - Zimmer Arrives - -
2014: 11th
2015: 5th
2016: 6th
2017: 1st
2018: 9th
2019: 5th
2020: 29th
2021: 24th

Vikings D fell apart at the end, but that was because in 2020 they lost all 3 of their starting CBs (we took 2 of them) and they had to roll with two 2020 rookies and a 2019 7th rounder. Then in 2021, Kirk Cousins had a $31m cap hit, and they had $25.6m in dead cap in a year where it shrank $16m.

Either way, in a 14 year span he had 9 top-10 defenses with two of those 5 where he didn't have one being the years he showed up. Tack on 6 of those years being top-6. That's really damn good.

Meanwhile there's people in this thread happy with Lou Anarumo having the 25th, 22nd, and 17th scoring defenses despite a TON of money spent bringing in high quality FAs.

The Vikings won a playoff game with Case Keenum as their starter and Latavius Murray as their #1 rusher. They were a missed 27 yard FG away from winning a playoff game a different year with Teddy Bridgewater as their starter.

I’d love to have the guy in some capacity but at his age, and at this point in his career, I would think retirement would be the better option if I were him.

If Lou was to leave, I'd still love to snag Del Rio.

Zimmer is a bit of a polarizing figure in the game to a lot of players.. Some guys need to have a strict disciplinarian kicking them in the ass every day and some don't. For those who are self starters and do things the way they were taught they generally not going to have a lot of use for that kind of a coach. If you have a bunch of young pups underperforming every game or thereabouts then yeah, he's the kind of guy you want.  He'd very likely turn a lot of players off with his in your face attitude especially if the majority of players were already playing at a very high level..  Last year would have been the ideal time to try to hire Zimmer away, but now? I doubt it..  As for myself I never gravitated toward strict disciplinarian types.. I always found them a bit too arrogant in most cases..

(01-10-2022, 03:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why?


Lou has one of the best defenses that money can buy.  Here are players Bengals have signed for him.

Hendrickson..$15 million per year
Reader...........$13 million 
Hubbard........$10 million
Awuzie..........$ 7 million
Ogunjobi.......$ 6.2 million
Hilton............$ 6 million
Bell...............$ 6 million

And here are the results

Points allowed.....17th
Yards allowed......18th
Pass rating...........18th
Yds/play...............21st
3rd down%.........22nd

Not seeing your point... None of those contracts are huge.  I think Reader is the only one in the top ten per position and he is 10th.  It's 2022, that's just what players make

Lou was decent enough to run it back with him, but considering how much money and talent we have, I expect better than "mediocre". I'm not as sold on him as some, but I won't pound the table to have him fired, either.

The Bengals are the 15th highest paid defense, FYI

(01-11-2022, 12:08 AM)bonesaw Wrote: The Bengals are the 15th highest paid defense, FYI

We have good players on rookie deals like Jessie Bates and Logan Wilson, which would drag that ranking down. Still, we've spent a ton of of money on guys like Hendrickson, Hubbard, Reader, Bell, Hilton, etc.

We should be better. The d-line is loaded and our safeties are top notch. The CB's fit the system to a tee. The entire D was hand picked.

(01-10-2022, 11:55 PM)bonesaw Wrote: Not seeing your point... None of those contracts are huge.  I think Reader is the only one in the top ten per position and he is 10th.  It's 2022, that's just what players make

DEs...#8 (Hendrickson) and #21 (Hubbard) highest paid
DTs...#10 (Reader) and #28 (Ogunjobi) highest paid.

Considering there are only 32 teams, not only do we have a top 10 at each position, our #2 player at each position in higher paid than the #1 on many other teams.

Von Bell is top half of the league (13th) among free safeties. (although it looks like Sportrac list both safeties on some teams as "free safeties").  If you just lump all safeties together he is still top half (if ever team has 2 starting safeties) at #20.

If you consider the top 32 CBs as "CB1" then we have 3 that are pretty much paid as CB1. Waynes (#9), Awuzie (#31) and Hiton (#34)

We may not have the highest at any one position, but we have a lot of high paid players on our defense.  Clearly more than a lot of other teams.

Kinda torn.

I think Zimmer could get more out of our roster than lou. Flipside, Zimmer's been a head coach. I like what zt has done and I don't want to detail that.

(01-11-2022, 12:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: DEs...#8 (Hendrickson) and #21 (Hubbard) highest paid
DTs...#10 (Reader) and #28 (Ogunjobi) highest paid.

Considering there are only 32 teams, not only do we have a top 10 at each position, our #2 player at each position in higher paid than the #1 on many other teams.

Von Bell is top half of the league (13th) among free safeties. (although it looks like Sportrac list both safeties on some teams as "free safeties").  If you just lump all safeties together he is still top half (if ever team has 2 starting safeties) at #20.

If you consider the top 32 CBs as "CB1" then we have 3 that are pretty much paid as CB1. Waynes (#9), Awuzie (#31) and Hiton (#34)

We may not have the highest at any one position, but we have a lot of high paid players on our defense.  Clearly more than a lot of other teams.

Bottom line is we are a middle of the pack in $'s spent on defense...  Math checks out with a middle of the pack defense.  

Also I can name over 10 edge rushers that make more than Hendrickson off the top of my head. So not sure if you are only looking at 4-3 defensive ends but that would be skewed.

Edit: Hendrickson is the 24th highest paid edge rusher.

(01-11-2022, 12:50 AM)bonesaw Wrote: Bottom line is we are a middle of the pack in $'s spent on defense...  Math checks out with a middle of the pack defense.  

That is just too simple.  You have to look at how much is paid to the guys who actually play.

Something to remember with Zim - he favors press man coverage and a "heavy" 4-3....and our personnel groupings don't fit that anymore.

(01-11-2022, 12:59 AM)bonesaw Wrote: Also I can name over 10 edge rushers that make more than Hendrickson off the top of my head.  So not sure if you are only looking at 4-3 defensive ends but that would be skewed.

Edit:  Hendrickson is the 24th highest paid edge rusher.

You can't compare 3-4 OLBs to 4-3 DEs because they are both "edge rushers" anymore than you can compare Safeties to CBs just because they are both "defensive backs"

(01-11-2022, 01:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That is just too simple.  You have to look at how much is paid to the guys who actually play.

Dude....we don't have some star studded mega paid starting defense... hate to break it to you.  It's the NFL there are only like 25 roster spots for defense and most all of them play some snaps.