(01-11-2022, 02:05 AM)bonesaw Wrote: Dude....we don't have some star studded mega paid starting defense... hate to break it to you.

Hate to break it to you but I just posted actual numbers that show that our #2 guys at multiple positions are paid more than the #1 guys on many other teams.

Our second highest paid DE is the 21st highest paid DE in the league.
Our second highest paid DT is the 28th highest paid DT in the league.
We have 3 CBs among the 34 highest paid in the league.

y'all will make a thread about damn near anything

(01-11-2022, 02:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Hate to break it to you but I just posted actual numbers that show that our #2 guys at multiple positions are paid more than the #1 guys on many other teams.

Our second highest paid DE is the 21st highest paid DE in the league.
Our second highest paid DT is the 28th highest paid DT in the league.
We have 3 CBs among the 34 highest paid in the league.

And our total defense is actually paid in the middle of the league, real total not a couple outlier stats that aren't correct.  We have no inside linebackers or outside linebackers inside the top 32, see outlier stats are easy.  And the DE thing is wrong, you are basically looking at just 4-3 DE's if you do not count the 3-4 teams then yes those guys are paid in the middle of all 4-3 teams.  If you look at it as edge rushers to include the 3-4 teams OLB(the money position in a 3-4 similar to a 4-3 DE) then our top guy is 24th in the league.  

(01-10-2022, 03:00 PM)Trademark Wrote: Mike Zimmer was fired by the Vikings, would you want to bring him back next season as the new DC if they don't re-sign Lou? Personally I'd rather keep Lou with the way he's turned the defense around.

I liked Zim when he was here, but I think Lou adapts better to the wide-open offenses today.  I also like the chemistry the whole team feels right now.  

I hope they can secure Pollack for another season or two as well.  Continuity of teaching.  Jonah has become very solid.

(01-11-2022, 09:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I liked Zim when he was here, but I think Lou adapts better to the wide-open offenses today.  I also like the chemistry the whole team feels right now.  

I hope they can secure Pollack for another season or two as well.  Continuity of teaching.  Jonah has become very solid.

Continuity of teaching is a very good point.  

I think if we were to do anything with Zim a analyst position would be alright

(01-11-2022, 02:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Hate to break it to you but I just posted actual numbers that show that our #2 guys at multiple positions are paid more than the #1 guys on many other teams.

Our second highest paid DE is the 21st highest paid DE in the league.
Our second highest paid DT is the 28th highest paid DT in the league.
We have 3 CBs among the 34 highest paid in the league.

Both of those guys signed deals last year. Those positions won't hold up with this years signings.

(01-11-2022, 09:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Both of those guys signed deals last year. Those positions won't hold up with this years signings.

Next year has nothing to do with this year.  But you are correct that eventually the front office will be unable to keep bringing in more and more high priced players to get a good defense from Lou.

(01-11-2022, 09:10 AM)bonesaw Wrote: Continuity of teaching is a very good point.  

I think if we were to do anything with Zim a analyst position would be alright

I don't see Zim as a college coach, but I am sure there will be a number of new coaches looking to build rosters with teams that will pay well for an assistant like Zim.  

One thing I will say about him:  He has always had a pretty solid defense despite rarely having elite talent around him.  

(01-11-2022, 08:56 AM)bonesaw Wrote:  If you look at it as edge rushers to include the 3-4 teams OLB(the money position in a 3-4 similar to a 4-3 DE) then our top guy is 24th in the league.  

I can't compare 3-4 teams with 4-3 teams because we, as a 4-3 team, pay an extra D-lineman.  You are basically saying we should only count the money we pay to 3 of our 4 D-linemen.

And BTW Hendrickson is 19th among "edge rushers" not 24th.

Don't we predominantly run a 4-2-5?

(01-10-2022, 08:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're wrong and they do. Here's the scoring defenses he's been a part of with the Bengals/Vikings...

BENGALS
2007: 24th
- - Zimmer Arrives - -
2008: 19th
2009: 6th
2010: 24th
2011: 9th
2012: 8th
2013: 5th
- - Zimmer Leaves - - 
2014: 12th

VIKINGS
2013: 32nd
- - Zimmer Arrives - -
2014: 11th
2015: 5th
2016: 6th
2017: 1st
2018: 9th
2019: 5th
2020: 29th
2021: 24th

Vikings D fell apart at the end, but that was because in 2020 they lost all 3 of their starting CBs (we took 2 of them) and they had to roll with two 2020 rookies and a 2019 7th rounder. Then in 2021, Kirk Cousins had a $31m cap hit, and they had $25.6m in dead cap in a year where it shrank $16m.

Either way, in a 14 year span he had 9 top-10 defenses with two of those 5 where he didn't have one being the years he showed up. Tack on 6 of those years being top-6. That's really damn good.

Meanwhile there's people in this thread happy with Lou Anarumo having the 25th, 22nd, and 17th scoring defenses despite a TON of money spent bringing in high quality FAs.

The Vikings won a playoff game with Case Keenum as their starter and Latavius Murray as their #1 rusher. They were a missed 27 yard FG away from winning a playoff game a different year with Teddy Bridgewater as their starter.

Good post dude, and I don't disagree with the overall sentiment. Zimmer was largely a very good DC here, I wasn't saying he wasn't.

But you didn't bold the most pertinent point of that sentence... that I never felt the defence would take over a game when it mattered most. Scoring defensive averages wouldn't be the relevant statistic for that. We'd need to identify the crunch games in each season and see how the defence did in those, versus how they performed in the other games to see if they dropped off.

The example that most sticks out to me was when our defence got absolutely slaughtered by the Chargers running game, in a season where we went 8-0 at home and had given up 17 points a game at home. Finishing 5th in scoring defence means absolutely sod all when they couldn't be counted on in the playoff game. (And no, I'm not blaming the defence for that loss, the offence did sweet FA to help them!). 

In terms of performances in the playoffs.... Maybe that's a little unfair, as our defence was very good against the Texans (2nd time) and they did their job against the Colts IIRC (in 2014 or whenever it was). In every playoff game, our offence was atrocious, so don't get me wrong I'm not blaming these on the defence. Of course their performances weren't helped by how bad the offence was.

That's purely opinion, and stats may not back me up. But I look at the Ravens/Steelers defences in those same years and they could be defining in big games. It always seemed to me in crunch moments, our defence gave up the last minute TD etc. That matters far more than how their scoring defence averaged over the course of a season. But, I will concede I don't have stats to back up my opinion. And I will also concede that it doesn't necessarily suggest Zim was the problem either.

To me Zimmer is a very good coach, but typifies the struggles teams like the Bengals/Vikings have. He got us to a good level, but we never went further (i.e. 0 playoff wins with him - not that I'm blaming him as the reason we didn't win any of those games). With the Vikings... he's got a 2-3 playoff record in 8 years, and they had some decent teams in that stretch. It seems to me like he's a guy who can improve a team, but not get them beyond a point. 

And back to the point of this thread, would I have him back at DC? Yes if we're getting the Zimmer DC of old. But he's 8 years removed from being a DC. Looking at the past in sports rarely works. With that said, if I read in the offseason we hire him as next year's DC, I won't be crying about it either.

(01-11-2022, 11:01 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Don't we predominantly run a 4-2-5?

A 4-2-5 is just a nickel package. All teams in the NFL employ nickel personnel quite a bit due to the proliferation of 3 WR sets.