(01-12-2022, 10:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then you agree with me that "vibe" and "culture" have nothing to do with "winning"?

That has been my point all along.

Vibe and culture reflect more an entire season than one game

(01-12-2022, 11:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Barring injury to  Burrow, there's no reason to think with another draft and FA, we won't be as good or better next year. Most of our stars are under contract to be back.

This is exactly what everyone said in '05.

(01-12-2022, 11:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  Look at all the young talent we had on the '05 team, Palmer (25), Ocho (27), Rudi (25), Levi Jones (25), Eric Steinbach (25), Justin Smith (25), Robert Geathers (22), Odell Thurman (22), Chris Henry (22), David Pollack (23), Madieu Williams (24).

And you want to know an interesting fact about the '84 Dolphins that Marino took to the Super Bowl in just his second year?  His two super star WRs were a rookie (Mark Clayton) and a second year player (Mark Duper).  Sound familiar?

(01-12-2022, 11:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Barring injury to  Burrow, there's no reason to think with another draft and FA, we won't be as good or better next year. Most of our stars are under contract to be back.

I'm sure lots of franchises have thought that after playoff/superbowl runs but never made it back during that time.

I bet Colts fans thought Luck would get them there, New Orleans thought Brees would, Green Bay thought Rodgers would, San Franciso thought Capernick would, Pittsburgh and Roethlisberger, the list goes on. How many of those teams thought they wouldn't be back since their last Superbowl (or playoff run in Indy's case)? Obviously we only dream of getting to that point but it's the same premise. 

(01-12-2022, 10:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then you agree with me that "vibe" and "culture" have nothing to do with "winning"?

That has been my point all along.

I've heard a number of former players talking about the culture of New England and it being completely different than most other teams in the league. It's attributed by most who've talked about it part of the reason they stay so consistently good. 

(01-12-2022, 10:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why would I be worried about a lack of urgency when the reason for the concern is over?  The lack of urgency has nothing to do with "worrying about the future" it is about "worrying about losing this week".

I am afraid that some of the players might have the same mindset as you.  No need to play with any urgency or desperation because we will have so many more chances in the next few years, right?

Hold on hold hold on..........

You honestly think that the players are looking beyond this week and worrying about the future?!




Ok, I'm fine now...... so you think that.......  no, wait.........



Do you realize how short the life of the average NFL player is? You don't think they know that they have to win NOW?!





Ok, I'm fine now........  you don't think that.......  no, wait.........



You don't think that the players know the history of this franchise, how snakebitten we've been, or that we haven't won a playoff game in 30 years?!



EVERYONE knows what's at stake and they know that this will be the biggest game that a lot of them have ever played in.

We all know why you made this thread............

(01-13-2022, 01:37 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hold on hold hold on..........

You honestly think that the players are looking beyond this week and worrying about the future?!




Ok, I'm fine now...... so you think that.......  no, wait.........



Do you realize how short the life of the average NFL player is? You don't think they know that they have to win NOW?!





Ok, I'm fine now........  you don't think that.......  no, wait.........



You don't think that the players know the history of this franchise, how snakebitten we've been, or that we haven't won a playoff game in 30 years?!



EVERYONE knows what's at stake and they know that this will be the biggest game that a lot of them have ever played in.

We all know why you made this thread............

Well, Brad, you know all of those things you just listed and even you are taking it for granted that we will be as good or better over the next few years.  When you think like that you don't appreciate how important it is to win now.  If you are sure you are going to be back next year then that means it is not as urgent to win now.

So if you think that way I am afraid some of the players might also.

(01-13-2022, 01:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Well, Brad, you know all of those things you just listed and even you are taking it for granted that we will be as good or better over the next few years.  When you think like that you don't appreciate how important it is to win now.  If you are sure you are going to be back next year then that means it is not as urgent to win now.

So if you think that way I am afraid some of the players might also.

You're digging yourself deeper and deeper!

You completely ignored my points and just spewed out more garbage!

I point out how we're not taking it for granted and pointed out how there's no way the players are and you just ignore it all and repeat that I am and the players are!

(01-13-2022, 08:34 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I point out how we're not taking it for granted and pointed out how there's no way the players are and you just ignore it all and repeat that I am and the players are!

Actually what I did was point out that, by your own admission, you are taking it for granted that the Bengals will be just as good or even better over the next few years.  Then I pointed out that since you are doing it is possible the players are doing it.

How can you say you are not taking it for granted when there is a direct quote in this very thread where you say the team will be as good or even better over the next few years?  Do you not know what the term "taking for granted" means?  You believe (take it) as true (granted) that the team will be just as good or even better.  Thinking like this means you do not appreciate the urgency to win this year.

This is one of the stupidest arguments I have read on this board.....

(01-12-2022, 04:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have already made a thread to address this.  We have seen "peaks" before in the season that were followed by playing like shit for a couple of games.  If Zac can keep us playing on a high level in the playoffs then he will deserve my praise.

Marvin NEVER did that, and you have no problem praising him.

(01-13-2022, 11:02 AM)SladeX Wrote: Marvin NEVER did that, and you have no problem praising him.

2 points

1. Marvin was trashed for never winning a playoff game bur Zac is being praised for never winning a playoff game.

2. Marvin was working under a handicap. He never got the big name free agents Zac  has been given.

Marvin Lewis was 0-7 as a head coach in the playoffs. It is easy to understand why people became critical of him as the coach.

Zac Taylor has not yet coached his first playoff game and thus it is equally easy to understand why criticism about him as a playoff coach has not yet occurred. If Zac has a good coaching career like Marvin Lewis, yet also goes 0-7 in the playoffs, or worse, I anticipate he'll receive criticism similar to what was expressed about Lewis.

Zac is being praised for winning the AFC North in his third season and making the playoffs. It's a contrived perspective to think the majority of fans are actually thinking, "Zac is so awesome because he never won a playoff game... COY!" Suggesting fans think about it like this, when they don't, is flawed reasoning because it is not prevalent amongst fans.

Raiders fans saying they got hot and they haven’t seen burrow’s last 2 I guess

(01-13-2022, 10:28 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually what I did was point out that, by your own admission, you are taking it for granted that the Bengals will be just as good or even better over the next few years.  Then I pointed out that since you are doing it is possible the players are doing it.

How can you say you are not taking it for granted when there is a direct quote in this very thread where you say the team will be as good or even better over the next few years?  Do you not know what the term "taking for granted" means?  You believe (take it) as true (granted) that the team will be just as good or even better.  Thinking like this means you do not appreciate the urgency to win this year.

When did I say I'm taking it for granted? Post quotes with links, not out of context quotes.

Saying that future free agents would be excited to come here once we win a playoff game or two (in a thread that's likely about the future) is not taking it for granted. There's nothing wrong with optimism in posts or having faith in your team. Do you think the players and coaches want people showing up to games that aren't confident we're going to win?

I've been at every playoff game since the '05 season and you honestly think that, with the heartbreak of the Carson injury and then the Hill fumble, that I, or any other true fan, is taking this for granted?

We're loving the current moment. Cincinnati is going to be packed pre-game, so much so that we're not even going to The Banks, and tailgating will be crazy (already invited to multiple parties), but you think fans are taking it for granted?

Fred, we've been waiting THIRTY YEARS FOR THIS, and every coach and player knows it, so trust me when I tell you that no one is taking it for granted.

(01-13-2022, 04:28 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: When did I say I'm taking it for granted? Post quotes with links, not out of context quotes.

Saying that future free agents would be excited to come here once we win a playoff game or two (in a thread that's likely about the future) is not taking it for granted. There's nothing wrong with optimism in posts or having faith in your team. Do you think the players and coaches want people showing up to games that aren't confident we're going to win?

I've been at every playoff game since the '05 season and you honestly think that, with the heartbreak of the Carson injury and then the Hill fumble, that I, or any other true fan, is taking this for granted?

We're loving the current moment. Cincinnati is going to be packed pre-game, so much so that we're not even going to The Banks, and tailgating will be crazy (already invited to multiple parties), but you think fans are taking it for granted?

Fred, we've been waiting THIRTY YEARS FOR THIS, and every coach and player knows it, so trust me when I tell you that no one is taking it for granted.

Not to derail y'all's argument.....but....John Thornton was on WLW last night talking about the very topic I bolded. As a former player, and current agent, he was basically echoing what you are saying there. He thinks one thing you'll see more of is guys coming in for a one year deal to plug holes in the roster. Guys looking to come back off injury, or cap casualties. When you're losing, you don't have much of that.

(01-13-2022, 04:46 PM)Wyche Wrote: Not to derail y'all's argument.....but....John Thornton was on WLW last night talking about the very topic I bolded. As a former player, and current agent, he was basically echoing what you are saying there. He thinks one thing you'll see more of is guys coming in for a one year deal to plug holes in the roster. Guys looking to come back off injury, or cap casualties. When you're losing, you don't have much of that.

Exactly but I think we'll also get a few big names coming here on long-term deals because they're excited about what's going on here!

(01-13-2022, 01:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Well, Brad, you know all of those things you just listed and even you are taking it for granted that we will be as good or better over the next few years.  When you think like that you don't appreciate how important it is to win now.  If you are sure you are going to be back next year then that means it is not as urgent to win now.

So if you think that way I am afraid some of the players might also.

Are you really insinuating that there is Bengal fans who don't care about this game and playoff run? We probably want it more than any fanbase out there. It's been 30 years man...

(01-13-2022, 04:54 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Exactly but I think we'll also get a few big names coming here on long-term deals because they're excited about what's going on here!

Yeah, I'd agree with that too. They didn't really go in depth on the subject, but I thought Thornton made a good point there. He said often a guy will take deals like that to prove themselves, and they'd rather go and win some games while they're at it. Maybe they even stay, and sign a longer deal. 

(01-13-2022, 05:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, I'd agree with that too. They didn't really go in depth on the subject, but I thought Thornton made a good point there. He said often a guy will take deals like that to prove themselves, and they'd rather go and win some games while they're at it. Maybe they even stay, and sign a longer deal. 

Big Spain is a classic example of a player looking to prove himself for a long term deal.

(01-12-2022, 04:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have already made a thread to address this.  We have seen "peaks" before in the season that were followed by playing like shit for a couple of games.  If Zac can keep us playing on a high level in the playoffs then he will deserve my praise.

So nice of you to keep moving the bar, first it was playoffs or die, now it's changed again??
No one is taking this season for granted, that's all in YOUR head. Most of us are all happy with the current team, where we are right now, and looking forward to more years of success, nothing wrong with that. This team right now, is YOUNG, HUNGRY, and INCONSISTENT. What we wanna see is MATURE, HUNGRY and CONSISTENT going forward. I know, i know, you don't like ZT or JB.