(01-23-2022, 06:42 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I don't know why people trust Pollack is such a great O-line coach.  The O line is one of the worst in the NFL.  If you llook at PFF and look at ESPN Analytics they both show the line is very bad.  If you look at recent history, Pollack was bad when he was with the Jets which is why he was let go.  Even when Pollack was here in 2018 the O line was mediocre at best.  I just dont see Pollack as this great Oline guru.

Bill Callahan is widely considered one of the best OL coaches in the league (who Pollack came up under) but that didn’t stop the Browns from giving up 9 sacks in week 17 against the Steelers. And they sunk an absolute fortune into that OL. Judging an OL coach solely off raw sack totals is folly.

We aren’t in the AFC Championship game had we not replaced Turner with Pollack. Period.

(01-23-2022, 06:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bill Callahan is widely considered one of the best OL coaches in the league (who Pollack came up under) but that didn’t stop the Browns from giving up 9 sacks in week 17 against the Steelers. And they sunk an absolute fortune into that OL. Judging an OL coach solely off raw sack totals is folly.

We aren’t in the AFC Championship game had we not replaced Turner with Pollack. Period.

Pollack is not the reason we are in the AFC Championship game.  This line is horrible.

(01-23-2022, 02:31 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: You mean to tell me our 2nd round guard can’t beat out Adeniji?

Our second round guard was by most experts a mid 3 round grade. He was way over selected and it shows in his tape. But I do still think carman has to be better than adeniji

(01-23-2022, 07:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Pollack is not the reason we are in the AFC Championship game.  This line is horrible.

Pollack ain’t been that great no but there are not really any good players on our line sooo there’s that

(01-23-2022, 07:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: This line is horrible.

 ya don't say?

(01-23-2022, 07:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Pollack is not the reason we are in the AFC Championship game.  This line is horrible.

He’s one of the (many) reasons, yes. Are we there with Jim Turner still here?

(01-23-2022, 07:04 PM)JoyrideJoe15 Wrote: Our second round guard was by most experts a mid 3 round grade. He was way over selected and it shows in his tape. But I do still think carman has to be better than adeniji

Repeating it over and over doesn’t make it anymore true. The consensus on Carman was 2nd round.

(01-23-2022, 07:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s one of the (many) reasons, yes. Are we there with Jim Turner still here?

If Turner was still here, how much worse could the line have been yesterday?  Yes, the Bengals would still be in the AFC Championship.

(01-23-2022, 07:20 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If Turner was still here, how much worse could the line have been yesterday?  Yes, the Bengals would still be in the AFC Championship.

Clairvoyance must be a wonderful quality to possess.  Just wondering, were you born with that ability, or is it something you acquired over time?

I'm also wondering if you could clear up a few other things.

If Paul Brown chooses  Bill Walsh over Tiger Johnson, do we win all the Super Bowls the 49ers won?

If Carson doesn't get his knee blown out in 05,  does he win that Super Bowl, go on to a Hall of Fame career, and retire as one of the most revered Bengals of all time?

What tweaks should I make to my portfolio to achieve lifetime security?

(01-23-2022, 07:20 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If Turner was still here, how much worse could the line have been yesterday?  Yes, the Bengals would still be in the AFC Championship.

Ok

(01-23-2022, 07:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Repeating it over and over doesn’t make it anymore true. The consensus on Carman was 2nd round.

Mock draft ratings are largely meaningless.  There were several offensive line picks above Carman that were much worse.  You win some, you lose some.  I haven't given up on Carman.

(01-23-2022, 07:52 PM)MickMack Wrote: Mock draft ratings are largely meaningless.  There were several offensive line picks above Carman that were much worse.  You win some, you lose some.  I haven't given up on Carman.

Most rational people haven’t. Kid just turned 22 yesterday.

Wait... did I really just read that Turner would have been okay this season?

Of all the offseason debates I feel like the one universal thing was Turner had to go. The debate of different draft picks = same result makes total sense. If the team stays this healthy (one of the biggest reason they are in the AFC Championship game) with Burrow playing the way he has, I think they are still in the same situation. However Turner was not just a bad coach but a bad person, have to believe his douche-baggery was not helpful to team chemistry.

(01-23-2022, 06:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bill Callahan is widely considered one of the best OL coaches in the league (who Pollack came up under) but that didn’t stop the Browns from giving up 9 sacks in week 17 against the Steelers. And they sunk an absolute fortune into that OL. Judging an OL coach solely off raw sack totals is folly.

We aren’t in the AFC Championship game had we not replaced Turner with Pollack. Period.

I do think the Browns were on at least they're 3rd string RT going against Watt.

(01-23-2022, 05:55 PM)Synric Wrote: Protection is still inside out. 

The Titans had someone lined up over Adeniji's shoulder which means his first responsibility is that A Gap which he works to first then tries to get back to the B gap at the snap. Isaiah Prince even if he recognizes the blitzing DB from the slot still has to work B to C. Its possibly Adeniji's fault but more likely it should have been Prince to B pass to Adeniji and Prince to pick up the delayed blitzer.

You consider that a delayed blitz? 

(01-23-2022, 07:52 PM)MickMack Wrote: Mock draft ratings are largely meaningless.  There were several offensive line picks above Carman that were much worse.  You win some, you lose some.  I haven't given up on Carman.

I don't know if it would be beneficial to switch Carman out for Adeniji at this point or not. But I still kind of think we should of stuck with Carman after he got healthy. I now he was inconsistent and maybe it was at a point of being too risky playing him. But he some real flashes that even I noticed that were showing some real promise.

(01-23-2022, 08:05 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Wait... did I really just read that Turner would have been okay this season?

Of all the offseason debates I feel like the one universal thing was Turner had to go. The debate of different draft picks = same result makes total sense. If the team stays this healthy (one of the biggest reason they are in the AFC Championship game) with Burrow playing the way he has, I think they are still in the same situation. However Turner was not just a bad coach but a bad person, have to believe his douche-baggery was not helpful to team chemistry.

Turner was awful. I have respect for Pollack. He's a good coach. He just doesn't have much good clay to work with. That's probably an understatement.

As good as this team has been, it's all in spite of the line. It's tough to imagine it being much worse. We gave up over 50 sacks this year, and threw a lot less than last year.

Run game was in the mid-twenties in yards and YPC. 

I'm not saying we weren't better off having Pollack aboard. I think we are. Just saying I kinda get where he's coming from on this take. We just won the divisional game giving up 9 sacks. So how much credit can we give Pollack, really?

(01-23-2022, 07:43 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Clairvoyance must be a wonderful quality to possess.  Just wondering, were you born with that ability, or is it something you acquired over time?

No, its just common sense.  Pollack's line isnt any better than Turners last year and thats with Turner not having the same talent Pollack has to work with.  Its absolutely ridiculous to claim Pollack is responsible for this team making it to the AFC Championship game when they gave up 9 sacks yesterday on top of the 55 in regular season.  The O line is horrible under Pollack.   Polllack has little to do with this team making it to the AFC Championship.

(01-23-2022, 08:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You consider that a delayed blitz? 

He wasn't in the box so it's considered delayed blitz.

(01-23-2022, 08:05 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Wait... did I really just read that Turner would have been okay this season?

Of all the offseason debates I feel like the one universal thing was Turner had to go. The debate of different draft picks = same result makes total sense. If the team stays this healthy (one of the biggest reason they are in the AFC Championship game) with Burrow playing the way he has, I think they are still in the same situation. However Turner was not just a bad coach but a bad person, have to believe his douche-baggery was not helpful to team chemistry.

The guy literally refused to teach certain players technique…

Pollack obviously isn’t a miracle worker, but he made a positive difference.