(01-24-2022, 12:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Have to re-sign Big Spain. He and Williams are pretty solid on the left side of the line. We need to spend the money to upgrade from Center down the right side of the line.

The only centers available in FA that would be an upgrade over Hopkins are up there in age. With another year left of Trey’s contract I don’t see them moving on from him yet. He’s also steadily improved the deeper into the season we’ve got.

The right side is where they have to focus. Even if they re-sign Reiff. He’s pretty much guaranteed to miss a least a few games, and we can’t pencil in Carman until he proves he’s ready.

(01-24-2022, 01:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The only centers available in FA that would be an upgrade over Hopkins are up there in age. With another year left of Trey’s contract I don’t see them moving on from him yet. He’s also steadily improved the deeper into the season we’ve got.

The right side is where they have to focus. Even if they re-sign Reiff. He’s pretty much guaranteed to miss a least a few games, and we can’t pencil in Carman until he proves he’s ready.

Always been a fan of James Daniels; he's available 

(01-24-2022, 05:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Always been a fan of James Daniels; he's available 

He would be a nice pickup, but I’ll be very surprised if the Bears don’t extend him.

The attachment could have more to do with the fact that we were one of the few remaining orgs willing to entertain having him on a team. Wasn’t he just rollover from the bills?

How can we all agree that we need to seriously upgrade the o line but at the same time insist that 2/5 of it isn’t a problem?

The entire line is a problem. Even with Reiff healthy Burrow was on pace to be the most sacked. We can’t find upgrades at every position in one offseason but replacing all current starters with premium talent needs to be a priority before we have to pay Burrow and Chase.

(01-24-2022, 06:35 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: How can we all agree that we need to seriously upgrade the o line but at the same time insist that 2/5 of it isn’t a problem?

The entire line is a problem. Even with Reiff healthy Burrow was on pace to be the most sacked. We can’t find upgrades at every position in one offseason but replacing all current starters with premium talent needs to be a priority before we have to pay Burrow and Chase.

Because you don’t need 5 All Pro’s to have a good OL (nor is it an achievable goal). You just have to make sure your weakest links aren’t bad enough to sink the whole unit. RG was that for us this year. That’s where you start.

(01-24-2022, 06:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Because you don’t need 5 All Pro’s to have a good OL (nor is it an achievable goal). You just have to make sure your weakest links aren’t bad enough to sink the whole unit. RG was that for us this year. That’s where you start.

You got some nerve there buddy, stop it with that "common sense" crap

I think there are five things the Bengals need to do this off season:

Sign Ryan Jensen, the Tampa Bay Center, to a 3 year, 30 million dollar contract.
Sign James Daniels, the Chicago Bears Guard, to a 4 year, 40 million dollar contract.
Sign Quinton Spain, our starting Guard, to a 2 year, 16 million dollar contract.
Sign Riley Reiff, our starting RT, to a 1 year, 7.5 million dollar contract.
Draft the best RT available at #32.

I doubt the majority of these things happen, but I sure would love to see them put big money into this Oline.

(01-22-2022, 04:31 PM)Synric Wrote: I would much rather have Bates back who is a proven veteran single high safety that plays at a high level.

To me upgrade poor spots lock up the young veterans. Rather use that 1st to get a Offensive Tackle or Corner (possibly a center). Instead of using that 1st the make a lateral move at best.

Disagree 100%. I love Bates so don’t get me wrong but banking on the draft for the offensive line solution is not a gamble I want to take. The bengals can’t hit on a offensive lineman in the draft to save their lives. They need to sign proven free agent talent and make moves trades for proven talent to solve the oline. Now if we can bring in a guy like Brian Allen and trade for a guy like Becton or sign Moses as well and we can still get Bates then by all means but I will much rather take a first round rookie to solve the safety position(which is no where near as valuable at offensive lineman) and spend the money necessary to solve the neglected offensive line. This team cannot go into the draft again with the intentions of using that to solve the oline.

(01-24-2022, 07:20 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think there are five things the Bengals need to do this off season:

Sign Ryan Jensen, the Tampa Bay Center, to a 3 year, 30 million dollar contract.
Sign James Daniels, the Chicago Bears Guard, to a 4 year, 40 million dollar contract.
Sign Quinton Spain, our starting Guard, to a 2 year, 16 million dollar contract.
Sign Riley Reiff, our starting RT, to a 1 year, 7.5 million dollar contract.
Draft the best RT available at #32.

I doubt the majority of these things happen, but I sure would love to see them put big money into this Oline.

Love this. But what’s ur plan with Eli Apple Cj uzomah Ricardo Allen jessie Bates? I like ur plan above but wanna know what u think we can do with our own guys if we did what ur talking above

(01-24-2022, 06:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Because you don’t need 5 All Pro’s to have a good OL (nor is it an achievable goal). You just have to make sure your weakest links aren’t bad enough to sink the whole unit. RG was that for us this year. That’s where you start.

I agree with this but to think the the two guys we have in jonah and Spain are good enough to supplement the rest of the line ur wrong. We need at least 1 more stud. U bring in Kelce and bring back Reiff I’m good there cuz I think carman will come on. But to me that’s the very least

(01-24-2022, 06:35 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: How can we all agree that we need to seriously upgrade the o line but at the same time insist that 2/5 of it isn’t a problem?

The entire line is a problem. Even with Reiff healthy Burrow was on pace to be the most sacked. We can’t find upgrades at every position in one offseason but replacing all current starters with premium talent needs to be a priority before we have to pay Burrow and Chase.

Because find a free agent left guard better than Spain with PFF numbers, who isn't going to be so outrageously expensive it wont affect getting other FAs on the line.

Should we really bank on a rookie at RT next year?

We couldn’t count on Carmen at RG this year. He’s essentially a 3rd stringer

If we’re gonna rely on a rookie RT, we need a free agent center who can replace Hopkins.

Simple as

(01-24-2022, 11:52 AM)Wyche Wrote: Hell, I was ten beers deep by the half, and I could tell Adeniji was the worst....

Same here lol

Adeniji just got abused on multiple plays. Put Carman out there man. He won't get bullied like that often.

Carman will actually abuse damn good DT's at times like he did to Brandon Williams in the first Ravens game.

I'm hoping that Adeniji giving up 5 sacks convinces the coaches that they need to be ready to sit him immediately if any issues arise. Also that there do something like have Boyd running a route where he can be the outlet if the ball needs to come out.

(01-24-2022, 09:21 PM)Joelist Wrote: I'm hoping that Adeniji giving up 5 sacks convinces the coaches that they need to be ready to sit him immediately if any issues arise. Also that there do something like have Boyd running a route where he can be the outlet if the ball needs to come out.

You sure would think so. I don't believe Carman would of been that bad regardless if he is inconsistent.

Adeniji was consistently bad against the Titans.

(01-24-2022, 07:37 PM)JoyrideJoe15 Wrote: Love this.  But what’s ur plan with Eli Apple Cj uzomah Ricardo Allen jessie Bates?  I like ur plan above but wanna know what u think we can do with our own guys if we did what ur talking above

So, we currently have about 58 million dollars in cap space. If we cut Waynes, that increases to 70 million.

If we sign the 4 I mentioned for the AAV that I had there, 10 million for the first 2, 8 million for Spain and 7.5 million for Reiff, we'd be sitting at 34 million left.

In my mind, we need to re-sign BJ Hill, CJ Uzomah, Eli Apple and Jessie Bates among the players that expect to contribute heavily to the cap.

I don't know for sure how much those players will cost. Let's assume 10 million for our rookie pool and let's assume we FT Bates. That's 23 more million (13 million projected for safeties).

That would leave 11 million for Hill, Uzomah and Apple. I could see all three of them signing short term, relatively cheap deals (say 5 million AAV) or I could see them each cashing in on great seasons. It's hard to tell. It'll be tight and that's probably why, if we make serious moves on the Oline, it likely won't be all 4 of those. 

But if we can just get 1 or 2 good free agents on the Oline and feature it heavily in the draft, we may be okay.

(01-24-2022, 10:16 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So, we currently have about 58 million dollars in cap space. If we cut Waynes, that increases to 70 million.

If we sign the 4 I mentioned for the AAV that I had there, 10 million for the first 2, 8 million for Spain and 7.5 million for Reiff, we'd be sitting at 34 million left.

In my mind, we need to re-sign BJ Hill, CJ Uzomah, Eli Apple and Jessie Bates among the players that expect to contribute heavily to the cap.

I don't know for sure how much those players will cost. Let's assume 10 million for our rookie pool and let's assume we FT Bates. That's 23 more million (13 million projected for safeties).

That would leave 11 million for Hill, Uzomah and Apple. I could see all three of them signing short term, relatively cheap deals (say 5 million AAV) or I could see them each cashing in on great seasons. It's hard to tell. It'll be tight and that's probably why, if we make serious moves on the Oline, it likely won't be all 4 of those. 

But if we can just get 1 or 2 good free agents on the Oline and feature it heavily in the draft, we may be okay.

We spent how many picks on OL in the last 2 drafts? Players have to play or we just wasted picks. I get that OL need to develop. But why draft players if they need an entire contract to see the field?

We can't keep drafting OL and grabbing FAs at the same position. We have a 30+ pick now, can't be wasteful. Look at the Eagles at WR or DB. You team is not going to win if you waste draft picks year after year

(01-24-2022, 11:02 PM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: We spent how many picks on OL in the last 2 drafts? Players have to play or we just wasted picks. I get that OL need to develop. But why draft players if they need an entire contract to see the field?

We can't keep drafting OL and grabbing FAs at the same position. We have a 30+ pick now, can't be wasteful. Look at the Eagles at WR or DB. You team is not going to win if you waste draft picks year after year

We've spent a 2nd round pick, a 4th round pick and 2 6th round picks on the oline in the last 2 drafts.

The 2nd round pick, Carman, we shouldn't give up on. But we shouldn't gift him the job either. He can't beat our Adeniji, who was a 6th rounder who just gave up 3 sacks. That's not a good sign. You want to let rookies develop, but you can't just assume they'll be great and not even try to improve.

You're falling victim to the sunk cost fallacy. Just because we spent resources on these guys doesn't mean they must play. The picks are gone regardless, so we may as well do everything we can to improve the team.

It's like when we let Whitworth walk because we had Ogbuehi and Fisher. I don't want them to make that same mistake of just assuming young players will work out simply because we spent high picks on them.

I also wouldn't give up on Smith, as he hasn't really been given a shot yet. The 6th round picks aren't anything worth considering when it comes to picks spent since 6th round picks routinely become nothing special, and it is essentially expected that they never start.

Our window opened earlier than we thought. With as much cap space as we have, I want them to go all in. I'd rather they "waste resources" by over addressing the Oline than under addressing it and just praying that guys already on our roster, who have been horrible all year, just suddenly figure it all out all at the same time.

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(01-24-2022, 10:16 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So, we currently have about 58 million dollars in cap space. If we cut Waynes, that increases to 70 million.

If we sign the 4 I mentioned for the AAV that I had there, 10 million for the first 2, 8 million for Spain and 7.5 million for Reiff, we'd be sitting at 34 million left.

In my mind, we need to re-sign BJ Hill, CJ Uzomah, Eli Apple and Jessie Bates among the players that expect to contribute heavily to the cap.

I don't know for sure how much those players will cost. Let's assume 10 million for our rookie pool and let's assume we FT Bates. That's 23 more million (13 million projected for safeties).

That would leave 11 million for Hill, Uzomah and Apple. I could see all three of them signing short term, relatively cheap deals (say 5 million AAV) or I could see them each cashing in on great seasons. It's hard to tell. It'll be tight and that's probably why, if we make serious moves on the Oline, it likely won't be all 4 of those. 

But if we can just get 1 or 2 good free agents on the Oline and feature it heavily in the draft, we may be okay.

Yes, cutting Trae Waynes does get our Cap to about 70 mil. The problem is there are a lot of players we will need to sign as well that will be costly when added up. 
Off Line - Riley Reiff, Quinton Spain & Fred Johnson
Def Line - Larry Ogunjobi, BJ Hill & Josh Tupou
Special Teams - Kevin Huber & Clark Harris
QB - Brandon Harris
Def Backs - Eli Apple, Vernon Hargreaves, Ricardo Allen, Tre Flowers & Jessie Bates
LB - Jordan Evans
TE - CJ Uzomah
WR - Stanley Morgan & Auden Tate

When I project the cost to sign a lot of these guys including a few salary bumps there really is not a lot left to sign a lot of free agents. Even if you get rid of a few of these guys you still need to sign replacements at those positions. Tough decision on how much you pay for OgunJobi and Jessie Bates and a CJ Uzomah. I love to keep everybody but we need to improve the line play with 1-2 Free agent lineman.

I do think we may be able to entice a guy like Andrew Norwell (LG) to come back and play for his hometown team. He is 30 but would get 6-10 mil.  Would also be great to get RG - Brandon Scherff (30) to sign a 5 year 63 mil deal that Spotrac has his market value at. That is about 12.7 million a year. I don't think we will do either of these options. We will sign Bates, Uzomah & Spain and stay the plan with the rookie lineman.