(01-27-2022, 02:55 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: Carman has 460 snaps this season with a PFF grade of 57, Adeniji 555 with 48 grade.  So according to PFF we would be upgrading.

Games Carman has started with the 1st team offense...

Steelers (no Watt)
Jaguars
Packers
Ravens
Jets

Without Watt the Steelers are 26th in sacks, the Jaguars are 27th, the Packers are 15th, the Ravens are 24th, the Jets are normally 26th.

I think they both stink, but Carman just hasn't had to go up against good competition to show the full extent of his stink.

(01-27-2022, 07:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Games Carman has started with the 1st team offense...

Steelers (no Watt)
Jaguars
Packers
Ravens
Jets

Without Watt the Steelers are 26th in sacks, the Jaguars are 27th, the Packers are 15th, the Ravens are 24th, the Jets are normally 26th.

I think they both stink, but Carman just hasn't had to go up against good competition to show the full extent of his stink.

You mean Quinnen Williams, Cameron Heyward, Odafe Oweh, Justin Houston arent good football players? What the team rank in sacks is a poor way to say he hasn't gone up against good competition.

(01-27-2022, 07:19 PM)Synric Wrote: You mean Quinnen Williams, Cameron Heyward, Odafe Oweh, Justin Houston arent good football players? What the team rank in sacks is a poor way to say he hasn't gone up against good competition.

Brandon Williams on the Ravens too who he manhandled late to put the game away on the big Mixon run...

(01-27-2022, 06:55 PM)Synric Wrote: When the RG is in a 3 point and the LG is in a 2 point stance doesn't tip run or pass. That allows the QB an option to check to a run play to the strong side A or B gap. The stance Carman is using is what he is told to use for that play concept he isnt deciding by himself. 

When Carman is in the game, he tips run or pass almost every snap not 3rd and long or goaline. No other linemen do. You can willfully ignore it all you want, doesn't make it not so.

I hate repeating myself but watching Locked On Bengals a month or so ago, they mentioned that the offense really started clicking after Adeniji came back from injury. They were instantly getting more reps in practice because they didn't have to stop to correct and teach the rookie every other snap. Everybody was wondering before then, "When are they going to put together a full game?". That's around the time Joe stopped throwing INTs. Adeniji's presence with 1 full year more of knowing the playbook helped this team get in sync at practice and it shows in the results. 

I don't want to see anything like the poor play we all saw on Saturday and I'm not defending Adeniji's play, I'm just laying out why I think they're not even considering Carman.

(01-27-2022, 08:00 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: When Carman is in the game, he tips run or pass almost every snap not 3rd and long or goaline. No other linemen do. You can willfully ignore it all you want, doesn't make it not so.

You know that unless you show evidence, not a soul will believe your lies, right?

(01-27-2022, 07:19 PM)Synric Wrote: You mean Quinnen Williams, Cameron Heyward, Odafe Oweh, Justin Houston arent good football players? What the team rank in sacks is a poor way to say he hasn't gone up against good competition.

I mean to say if a team has no other threats, you can double team the only threat there.

Also Odafe Oweh had 5.0 sacks and Justin Houston finished with 4.5 sacks, so no they were not good in 2021. They would be 5th and 6th in sacks on the Bengals. Quinnen Williams was 1st on the Jets with 6.0, would have been 4th on the Bengals.

The only one who finished better than 50th in sacks out of those 4 was Heyward who had 0 sacks, 0 TFL, and 0 QB Hits in the 3 games TJ Watt played less than 1/3rd of the defensive snaps. He basically just feasted on team's trying desperately to stop TJ Watt, and was completely blanked in games where Watt wasn't around.

(01-27-2022, 08:00 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: When Carman is in the game, he tips run or pass almost every snap not 3rd and long or goaline. No other linemen do. You can willfully ignore it all you want, doesn't make it not so.

You are claiming Jackson Carman is tipping run or pass by using a 2 point or 3 point stance this is not true at all. Offensive Linemen do not pick the stance they use that is part of the play design.

(01-27-2022, 01:16 PM)kronadon Wrote: Tis comes as a double edged sword. Carmen is not quite ready but is a bulldozer when you tell him we are running right behind you. In pass pro he is liable to be rag dolled and or miss. Adeniji does not have the road grader run blocking but at certain points seems to be able to pass block. its a tough call.

This is what would make me want to start Carman or at least rotate him.

With this line it's tough to say "yeah we need to run the ball and keep Mahommes off the field" even though that's exactly what you might want to do.

If Zac wants to run the ball with success you'd think Carman would be in consideration.

From that last game, Adeniji couldn't get any worse in pass pro so why wouldn't it be on the table?

Of course if Adeniji and Carman rotate, you wouldn't necessarily cater your plays to tip off the D.

Come to think of it... could just putting Carman in the game out of the blue might pressure the Chiefs D to lean towards defending the run?

This might benefit the play action results considerably.

(01-27-2022, 08:47 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: This is what would make me want to start Carman or at least rotate him.

With this line it's tough to say "yeah we need to run the ball and keep Mahommes off the field" even though that's exactly what you might want to do.

If Zac wants to run the ball with success you'd think Carman would be in consideration.

From that last game, Adeniji couldn't get any worse in pass pro so why wouldn't it be on the table?

Of course if Adeniji and Carman rotate, you wouldn't necessarily cater your plays to tip off the D.

Come to think of it... could just putting Carman in the game out of the blue might pressure the Chiefs D to lean towards defending the run?

This might benefit the play action results considerably.

All of this is common sense to me. Carman played decent against the Chiefs when Spain went down at LG last time too.

(01-27-2022, 08:00 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: When Carman is in the game, he tips run or pass almost every snap not 3rd and long or goaline. No other linemen do. You can willfully ignore it all you want, doesn't make it not so.

I hate repeating myself but watching Locked On Bengals a month or so ago, they mentioned that the offense really started clicking after Adeniji came back from injury. They were instantly getting more reps in practice because they didn't have to stop to correct and teach the rookie every other snap. Everybody was wondering before then, "When are they going to put together a full game?". That's around the time Joe stopped throwing INTs. Adeniji's presence with 1 full year more of knowing the playbook helped this team get in sync at practice and it shows in the results. 

I don't want to see anything like the poor play we all saw on Saturday and I'm not defending Adeniji's play, I'm just laying out why I think they're not even considering Carman.

So, you think the Bengals coaches wouldn't notice this and correct it? 

(01-27-2022, 11:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So, you think the Bengals coaches wouldn't notice this and correct it? 

I think that they've noticed it and that it plays a part into why he's not starting yet. He/they kind of corrected it at first in the Cleveland game, but fell back into tipping plays again. I couldn't re-watch too much of that game due to a severe case of Brandon Allen.

Remember. I was team o-line. I want nothing more than for this guy to work out, but in order for me to think that he's ready right now just because the guy in front of him struggled, I need to believe that a guy that showed up out of shape, had to be talked to by Spain about taking it serious . . . that he has studied his playbook enough to be ready to go into Arrowhead, where there will be lots of communication issues, and be ready to improve the performance of the offense? I just don't see it. I think too many people are stuck on his one big play in Baltimore. If they were wanting to come out and force Mixon down their throats, sure, but if they want to keep their offense in sync? Start Adeniji.

(01-27-2022, 03:27 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: If you are drafted #1 or #2, your butt stays on the field not the bench.

If you are benched, that's a sign of scout/coach failures. Massive failure.

This just is not true at all.  Less than half of 2nd round picks start as rookies, yet many of them develop into very good NFL players.

(01-28-2022, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true at all.  Less than half of 2nd round picks start as rookies, yet many of them develop into very good NFL players.

We need to change that trend, we are no longer THOSE Bengals. 

(01-27-2022, 10:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: There was no one better on the roster to play in front of Ogbuehi.

Could be, but coaches arent always right. There is a reason why there have been all time great players who went undrafted and were cut by teams before breaking out. Player evaluation isn't an exact science. Some guys practice like dog poo, but then go out and stud out on Sundays. Sure, most everyone on here is worse at player evaluation than Pollack the staff, but who knows, maybe Carman would go out there and have the better game. Carman did have a few really good games this season. 

(01-28-2022, 08:54 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: We need to change that trend, we are no longer THOSE Bengals. 

Not sure what you mean.  Even the best NFL teams usually need to give 2nd round picks a year to develop.  Just a quick check of this year's playoff teams show a bunch of examples of 2nd round picks that made huge improvements over their rookie seasons.

Packers's AJ Dillon.........from 263 yards from scrimmage to 1116.
Titan's Kristian Fulton....from 16 tkl and 1 PD to 40 tkl and 14 PD.
Ram's Van Jefferson......from 220 receving yards and 1 td to 802 yds and 6 tds.
Eagles Jalin Hurts..........from 1451 yds total offense and 9 TDR to 3928 yds and 26 TDR.
Cowboy's Trevon Diggs..from 3 int and 0 td to 11 int and 2 tds.
Pat's Kyle Dugger..........from 64 tkls and 0 int to 92 tkls and 4 int.
Colt's Michael Pittman...from 40 receptions and 1 td to 88 receptions and 6 tds.

(01-29-2022, 09:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you mean.  Even the best NFL teams usually need to give 2nd round picks a year to develop.  Just a quick check of this year's playoff teams show a bunch of examples of 2nd round picks that made huge improvements over their rookie seasons.

Packers's AJ Dillon.........from 263 yards from scrimmage to 1116.
Titan's Kristian Fulton....from 16 tkl and 1 PD to 40 tkl and 14 PD.
Ram's Van Jefferson......from 220 receving yards and 1 td to 802 yds and 6 tds.
Eagles Jalin Hurts..........from 1451 yds total offense and 9 TDR to 3928 yds and 26 TDR.
Cowboy's Trevon Diggs..from 3 int and 0 td to 11 int and 2 tds.
Pat's Kyle Dugger..........from 64 tkls and 0 int to 92 tkls and 4 int.
Colt's Michael Pittman...from 40 receptions and 1 td to 88 receptions and 6 tds.

Colts made a lot of noise in the playoffs this year.

Pretty sure JC gets the start in 2 weeks

I did see Carman in there during the last quarter. Wasn't sure when he came in though.

(01-30-2022, 10:08 PM)Foolishpride Wrote: I did see Carman in there during the last quarter.  Wasn't sure when he came in though.

I can't remember when he went in, but it immediately pointed out in GDT.  Still haven't seen if it was due to injury or was a coach's decision.

(01-26-2022, 06:00 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: Who should be our starting RG this week?

Carman 100%.