Tyler Boyd and Sam Hubbard (I think).

That is really freaking hard from me to believe - that this roster was completely scrubbed in like three years. It was completely gutted from the coaching staff to the players on the field.

I know it helps to basically luck into the drafting of Burrow #1 overall - that will completely accelerate a rebuild...but man, could this rebuild have went ANY better? Just complete hits on the draft, free agency, and a lot of key positions on the team that matter.

Yes there were some misses and they could add pieces this off-season to REALLY solidify this team, but I think a major storyline that doesn't get talk about enough is just how efficient this rebuild was and how this roster was completely flipped.

Huber and Clark?

Mixon
Uzomah
Hopkins
Bates
Huber
Clark Harris
Darius Phillips
Josh Tupou
Jordan Evans

(02-03-2022, 02:32 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote:  Just complete hits on the draft,

Even good teams miss on first round picks sometimes, but the Bengals went from a string of the worst luck with first round picks in the history of the league to taking back-to-back All Pro type players in Burrow and Chase.

Look at what we had gotten out of first round picks in the last 6 years of Marvins reign.

13-Eifert....Elite talent, but only one full season at elite level
14-Dennard....Not bad, but again only one full season of top play in 6 years
15-Ogbuehi....Total disaster.  Sometimes you "miss" on a first round pick because he just becomes an average starter.  Ogbuehi could not even do that.
16-WJ3.....Really good player early in career.  But only played 16 games once in 5 years.
17-Ross......See "Ogbuehi"
18-Price......See "Ross"


Combine those picks with the fact that our front office would not sign top free agents to fill the holes left by missed first round picks and the team was doomed.

(02-03-2022, 02:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even good teams miss on first round picks sometimes, but the Bengals went from a string of the worst luck with first round picks in the history of the league to taking back-to-back All Pro type players in Burrow and Chase.

Look at what we had gotten out of first round picks in the last 6 years of Marvins reign.

13-Eifert....Elite talent, but only one full season at elite level
14-Dennard....Not bad, but again only one full season of top play in 6 years
15-Ogbuehi....Total disaster.  Sometimes you "miss" on a first round pick because he just becomes an average starter.  Ogbuehi could not even do that.
16-WJ3.....Really good player early in career.  But only played 16 games once in 5 years.
17-Ross......See "Ogbuehi"
18-Price......See "Ross"


Combine those picks with the fact that our front office would not sign top free agents to fill the holes left by missed first round picks and the team was doomed.

speaking of Tyler Eifert, he hardly ever tweets but last night he spent several hours interacting with Bengals fans and also did this

Tyler updated FB profile! #Bengals pic.twitter.com/L9YkKXDWeV

— Bengal Jim’s BTR (@bengaljims_BTR) February 2, 2022

  

(02-03-2022, 02:32 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Tyler Boyd and Sam Hubbard (I think).

That is really freaking hard from me to believe - that this roster was completely scrubbed in like three years. It was completely gutted from the coaching staff to the players on the field.

I know it helps to basically luck into the drafting of Burrow #1 overall - that will completely accelerate a rebuild...but man, could this rebuild have went ANY better? Just complete hits on the draft, free agency, and a lot of key positions on the team that matter.

Yes there were some misses and they could add pieces this off-season to REALLY solidify this team, but I think a major storyline that doesn't get talk about enough is just how efficient this rebuild was and how this roster was completely flipped.

Mixon, Uzomah, Boyd, Hubbard, Hopkins, Phillips, Tate, Huber, Harris all were here with Marvin.

But you did hit on something worth pointing out - the draft.
Specifically, the early rounds of the draft.
Bengals have done rather well in Taylor's 3 drafts within the first 3 rounds.

What always kinda frustrated me with Marvin's drafts were there always seemed to be so many players who they whiffed on in Rds 1-3.

2017 - Whiffed on Ross and Willis
2015 - Complete whiff Rds 1-3
2014 - Whiff on Clarke, arguably Dennard
2013 - Whiff on Hunt
2012 - Whiff on Still and Thompson
2011 - Whiff on Moch
2009 - Whiff on Coffman

In quite a few of those drafts, the 4th rounder helped compensate for the whiff(s) earlier, but still not good to whiff that frequently in years you are trying to climb past the 1-and-done plateau.

(02-03-2022, 03:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Mixon, Uzomah, Boyd, Hubbard, Hopkins, Phillips, Tate, Huber, Harris all were here with Marvin.

But you did hit on something worth pointing out - the draft.
Specifically, the early rounds of the draft.
Bengals have done rather well in Taylor's 3 drafts within the first 3 rounds.

What always kinda frustrated me with Marvin's drafts were there always seemed to be so many players who they whiffed on in Rds 1-3.

2017 - Whiffed on Ross and Willis
2015 - Complete whiff Rds 1-3
2014 - Whiff on Clarke, arguably Dennard
2013 - Whiff on Hunt
2012 - Whiff on Still and Thompson
2011 - Whiff on Moch
2009 - Whiff on Coffman

In quite a few of those drafts, the 4th rounder helped compensate for the whiff(s) earlier, but still not good to whiff that frequently in years you are trying to climb past the 1-and-done plateau.

Makes you wonder what changed from those earlier years since you aren't listing any whiffs from 2003-2008

(02-03-2022, 02:56 PM)pally Wrote: speaking of Tyler Eifert, he hardly ever tweets but last night he spent several hours interacting with Bengals fans and also did this

Tyler updated FB profile! #Bengals pic.twitter.com/L9YkKXDWeV

— Bengal Jim’s BTR (@bengaljims_BTR) February 2, 2022

  

If CJ can't go we could do a lot worse than bringing in Eifert. 

(02-03-2022, 03:17 PM)basballguy Wrote: Makes you wonder what changed from those earlier years since you aren't listing any whiffs from 2003-2008

I didn't care to go back that far.

(02-03-2022, 03:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If CJ can't go we could do a lot worse than bringing in Eifert. 

Right. Like playing Sample 

(02-03-2022, 02:32 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Tyler Boyd and Sam Hubbard (I think).

That is really freaking hard from me to believe - that this roster was completely scrubbed in like three years. It was completely gutted from the coaching staff to the players on the field.

I know it helps to basically luck into the drafting of Burrow #1 overall - that will completely accelerate a rebuild...but man, could this rebuild have went ANY better? Just complete hits on the draft, free agency, and a lot of key positions on the team that matter.

Yes there were some misses and they could add pieces this off-season to REALLY solidify this team, but I think a major storyline that doesn't get talk about enough is just how efficient this rebuild was and how this roster was completely flipped.

Kevin Huber and Clark Harris ! 

(02-03-2022, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mixon
Uzomah
Hopkins
Bates
Huber
Clark Harris
Darius Phillips
Josh Tupou
Jordan Evans

Close, but not quite. You missed Boyd and Hubbard. Counting IR/Practice Squad guys (you got Evans) also yields Brandon Wilson, Tate, and Schreck.  In order of seniority:  

1. Kevin Huber, P, 2009 (Draft, 5th Rd). Active roster.
2. Clark Harris, LS, 2009 (FA).  Active roster. 
3. Trey Hopkins, C/G 2014/2016 (FA). Active roster. PS/AR yo-yo till '16.
4. CJ Uzomah, TE, 2015 (Draft, 5th Rd). Active roster.  
5. Tyler Boyd, WE, 2016 (Draft, 2nd Rd). Active roster. 
6. Joe Mixon, RB, 2017 (Draft, 2nd Rd). Active roster. 
7. Jordan Evans, LB, 2017 (Draft, 6th Rd). Injured Reserve. 
8. Brandon Wilson, S/KR, 2017 (Draft, 6th Rd). Injured Reserve. 
9. Mason Schreck, TE, 2017 (Draft, 7th Rd. Pr. Squad IR. AR/PS yo-yo. 
10. Josh Tupou, DT/NT, 2017 (Undrafted FA). Active roster. Early yo-yo.
11. Jessie Bates, FS, 2018 (Draft, 2nd Rd). Active Roster. 
12. Sam Hubbard, DE, 2018 (Draft, 3rd Rd). Active Roster.   
13. Darius Phillips, CB/PR, 2018 (Draft, 5th Rd). Injured Reserve. 
14. Auden Tate, WR, 2018 (Draft, 7th Rd). IR Designated to Return. 

(02-03-2022, 02:56 PM)pally Wrote: speaking of Tyler Eifert, he hardly ever tweets but last night he spent several hours interacting with Bengals fans and also did this

Tyler updated FB profile! #Bengals pic.twitter.com/L9YkKXDWeV

— Bengal Jim’s BTR (@bengaljims_BTR) February 2, 2022

  

(02-03-2022, 03:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If CJ can't go we could do a lot worse than bringing in Eifert. 

Should have him as a thought if it is possible lol

Don't know if it is though.

To the OP, have a lot of players from the Marv era, as IC85 said around 14 but it is key how we kept the players that fit
the new scheme Taylor and company were implementing.

I'm one who believes we give waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit (and blame) to coaches for their drafts.

Here's Zach's 2019:

1 - Jonah Williams, OT
2 - Drew Sample, TE
3 - Germaine Pratt, LB
4 - Ryan Finley, QB
4 - Renell Wren, DT
4 - Michael Jordan, OL
6 - Trayveon Williams, RB
6 - Deshaun Davis, LB
6 - Rodney Anderson, RB
7 - Jordan Brown, DB

*5 of the 10 are gone. Wren is basically PS fodder and Trayveon doesn't see the field. Which leaves Jonah, Sample and Pratt. To his credit Pratt has emerged recently but he was never a game-breaker before. Sample's seen as one of the worst second-round picks in history. Jonah is... well... he's the kind of LT around whom three years into his career we still wonder whether he's even playing the right position. Best case, he's a serviceable blindside protector who stays in his lane. Worst case, he's the leader (by default) of a line that tops the league in sacks allowed.

I don't mean to lay it all at the feet of Zac. Quite the opposite. I think the common thread around all these guys who have surprisingly begun to contribute is... wait for it... JOE BURROW. It's not rocket science. When you have a legit franchise quarterback all your players look better. Likewise, all your coaches look better. All your drafts look like you have the secret sauce. In reality a lot of it comes down to pure luck. Heck, I remember reading that Zac was partial to Penei Sewell in the war room, but got overruled. So can you even give him credit for Ja'Marr Chase?!

The greatest draft expert for this team is Burrow. Just like it was Brady in New England, Peyton in Indianapolis and on down the line. Not to take anything away from Palmer or Dalton, but Marvin Lewis never had that luxury.

(02-03-2022, 05:34 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Close, but not quite. You missed Boyd and Hubbard. Counting IR/Practice Squad guys (you got Evans) also yields Brandon Wilson, Tate, and Schreck.  In order of seniority:  

1. Kevin Huber, P, 2009 (Draft, 5th Rd). Active roster.
2. Clark Harris, LS, 2009 (FA).  Active roster. 
3. Trey Hopkins, C/G 2014/2016 (FA). Active roster. PS/AR yo-yo till '16.
4. CJ Uzomah, TE, 2015 (Draft, 5th Rd). Active roster.  
5. Tyler Boyd, WE, 2016 (Draft, 2nd Rd). Active roster. 
6. Joe Mixon, RB, 2017 (Draft, 2nd Rd). Active roster. 
7. Jordan Evans, LB, 2017 (Draft, 6th Rd). Injured Reserve. 
8. Brandon Wilson, S/KR, 2017 (Draft, 6th Rd). Injured Reserve. 
9. Mason Schreck, TE, 2017 (Draft, 7th Rd. Pr. Squad IR. AR/PS yo-yo. 
10. Josh Tupou, DT/NT, 2017 (Undrafted FA). Active roster. Early yo-yo.
11. Jessie Bates, FS, 2018 (Draft, 2nd Rd). Active Roster. 
12. Sam Hubbard, DE, 2018 (Draft, 3rd Rd). Active Roster.   
13. Darius Phillips, CB/PR, 2018 (Draft, 5th Rd). Injured Reserve. 
14. Auden Tate, WR, 2018 (Draft, 7th Rd). IR Designated to Return. 

Crap I really didn't realize it was that many. Poor research on my part. It kind of makes it even more impressive though that you can get all of those guys to buy in. 

(02-03-2022, 05:56 PM)tms Wrote: I'm one who believes we give waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit (and blame) to coaches for their drafts.

Here's Zach's 2019:

1 - Jonah Williams, OT
2 - Drew Sample, TE
3 - Germaine Pratt, LB
4 - Ryan Finley, QB
4 - Renell Wren, DT
4 - Michael Jordan, OL
6 - Trayveon Williams, RB
6 - Deshaun Davis, LB
6 - Rodney Anderson, RB
7 - Jordan Brown, DB

4 of the 9 are gone. Wren is basically PS fodder and Trayveon doesn't see the field. Which leaves Jonah, Sample and Pratt. To his credit Pratt has emerged recently but he was never a game-breaker before. Sample's seen as one of the worst second-round picks in history. Jonah is... well... he's the kind of LT around whom three years into his career we still wonder whether he's even playing the right position. Best case, he's a serviceable blindside protector who stays in his lane. Worst case, he's the leader (by default) of a line that tops the league in sacks allowed.

I don't mean to lay it all at the feet of Zac. Quite the opposite. I think the common thread around all these guys who have surprisingly begun to contribute is... wait for it... JOE BURROW. It's not rocket science. When you have a legit franchise quarterback all your players look better. Likewise, all your coaches look better. All your drafts look like you have the secret sauce. In reality a lot of it comes down to pure luck. Heck, I remember reading around here that Zac was partial to Penei Sewell in the war room, but got overruled. So can you even give him credit for Ja'Marr Chase?!

The greatest draft expert for this team is Burrow. Just like it was Brady in New England, Peyton in Indianapolis and on down the line. Not to take anything away from Palmer or Dalton, but Marvin Lewis never had that luxury.

I agree 100% with everything you wrote. ZT nailed the obvious Burrow and Chase picks, but beyond that he has been mediocre at best. This team was mainly built through FA over the past couple seasons. 

(02-03-2022, 05:56 PM)tms Wrote: I'm one who believes we give waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit (and blame) to coaches for their drafts.

Here's Zach's 2019:

1 - Jonah Williams, OT
2 - Drew Sample, TE
3 - Germaine Pratt, LB
4 - Ryan Finley, QB
4 - Renell Wren, DT
4 - Michael Jordan, OL
6 - Trayveon Williams, RB
6 - Deshaun Davis, LB
6 - Rodney Anderson, RB
7 - Jordan Brown, DB

*5 of the 10 are gone. Wren is basically PS fodder and Trayveon doesn't see the field. Which leaves Jonah, Sample and Pratt. To his credit Pratt has emerged recently but he was never a game-breaker before. Sample's seen as one of the worst second-round picks in history. Jonah is... well... he's the kind of LT around whom three years into his career we still wonder whether he's even playing the right position. Best case, he's a serviceable blindside protector who stays in his lane. Worst case, he's the leader (by default) of a line that tops the league in sacks allowed.

I don't mean to lay it all at the feet of Zac. Quite the opposite. I think the common thread around all these guys who have surprisingly begun to contribute is... wait for it... JOE BURROW. It's not rocket science. When you have a legit franchise quarterback all your players look better. Likewise, all your coaches look better. All your drafts look like you have the secret sauce. In reality a lot of it comes down to pure luck. Heck, I remember reading that Zac was partial to Penei Sewell in the war room, but got overruled. So can you even give him credit for Ja'Marr Chase?!

The greatest draft expert for this team is Burrow. Just like it was Brady in New England, Peyton in Indianapolis and on down the line. Not to take anything away from Palmer or Dalton, but Marvin Lewis never had that luxury.

I think you kind of missed the 2020 draft

1. Burrow (Duh)
2. Higgins (Huge impact on SB run)
3. Logan Wilson (see above)
4. Akeem Davis Gather (was playing well before injury this year)
5. Khaleed Kareem (rotational DE who has made some plays)
6. Hakeem Adeneji (He is a back up quality player who has started)
7. Marcus Bailey (has filled in during the rash of injuries and played well)

I'm not sure you could have asked for much more from a draft then that draft in 2020. I'll give him a slight pass in 2019 because it was his first time and frankly he was probably out of his depth, but that 2020 class is the foundation of the team.

(02-03-2022, 06:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think you kind of missed the 2020 draft

1. Burrow (Duh)
2. Higgins (Huge impact on SB run)
3. Logan Wilson (see above)
4. Akeem Davis Gather (was playing well before injury this year)
5. Khaleed Kareem (rotational DE who has made some plays)
6. Hakeem Adeneji (He is a back up quality player who has started)
7. Marcus Bailey (has filled in during the rash of injuries and played well)

I'm not sure you could have asked for much more from a draft then that draft in 2020. I'll give him a slight pass in 2019 because it was his first time and frankly he was probably out of his depth, but that 2020 class is the foundation of the team.

I think you kind of missed my point lol. If anything you just proved it.

Who's the first name on that list? I'll wait. How did those other players fare last season, especially after Burrow got hurt? I'll wait again. Higgins is really the only guy who did anything of note, and he was a first-round talent to begin with.

This entire team took an enormous leap as Joe Burrow emerged. That's no coincidence to me. 

(02-03-2022, 05:56 PM)tms Wrote: I'm one who believes we give waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit (and blame) to coaches for their drafts.

Here's Zach's 2019:

1 - Jonah Williams, OT
2 - Drew Sample, TE
3 - Germaine Pratt, LB
4 - Ryan Finley, QB
4 - Renell Wren, DT
4 - Michael Jordan, OL
6 - Trayveon Williams, RB
6 - Deshaun Davis, LB
6 - Rodney Anderson, RB
7 - Jordan Brown, DB

*5 of the 10 are gone. Wren is basically PS fodder and Trayveon doesn't see the field. Which leaves Jonah, Sample and Pratt. To his credit Pratt has emerged recently but he was never a game-breaker before. Sample's seen as one of the worst second-round picks in history. Jonah is... well... he's the kind of LT around whom three years into his career we still wonder whether he's even playing the right position. Best case, he's a serviceable blindside protector who stays in his lane. Worst case, he's the leader (by default) of a line that tops the league in sacks allowed.

I don't mean to lay it all at the feet of Zac. Quite the opposite. I think the common thread around all these guys who have surprisingly begun to contribute is... wait for it... JOE BURROW. It's not rocket science. When you have a legit franchise quarterback all your players look better. Likewise, all your coaches look better. All your drafts look like you have the secret sauce. In reality a lot of it comes down to pure luck. Heck, I remember reading that Zac was partial to Penei Sewell in the war room, but got overruled. So can you even give him credit for Ja'Marr Chase?!

The greatest draft expert for this team is Burrow. Just like it was Brady in New England, Peyton in Indianapolis and on down the line. Not to take anything away from Palmer or Dalton, but Marvin Lewis never had that luxury.

Great QB does make everything look better, sure...but we've signed/drafted the following players in the last 2 years:

DJ Reader
Larry Ogunjobi
BJ Hill
Trey Hendrickson
(We suddenly have an elite dline now)
Logan Wilson
Awuzie
Hilton
Bell
Chase
Spain
Etc

Joe Burrow is great. Lots of credit to him...but I get triggered when people go overboard. He didn't make these guys great players. He didn't identify if they were a fit and go out and sign them.

They deserve credit for their own greatness without us assigning it to Joe Burrow instead. Same with the FO. 

Joey is the same guy he was last year when he went 2-7-1. We just put a cast around him that's worthy. Now we're seeing his (and everyone else's) true ability.

I'll also add that even Brady has had plenty of one-n-done type seasons when his roster wasn't up to par. You don't get to the Super Bowl without lots of great talent. Tbh, our defense has been at least as impressive as Joey B in these playoffs.