(02-06-2022, 12:29 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The #1 priority this off-season needs to be fixing the offensive line. Hopefully to be more consistent in the running game but above all else protect Burrow. This seems like it may be somewhat of a complicated issue when you factor in the fact we have several free agents we need to sign or find replacements. Also the fact we are drafting so late we may have a limited selection of players on the line available or ones that can contribute immediately anyway. So I was curious on some specific solutions to fix the issue?

LT - Jonah seems adequate and believe we may have decent depth with Carman possibly being able to play if needed.
LG - Spain also seems to be good enough and likes it in Cincinnati so should be able to sign him.
C - People want to potentially replace Hopkins but I'm optimistic he will play better the farther away from his injury he gets. Trey Hills adds depth and hopefully continues to improve as he seemed pretty bad this year. Then if the Iowa center is there in the draft we can take him but don't have to force anything.
RG - This seems like the obvious place of needed improvement. There does seem to be a couple of good young RG available in free agency ( James Daniels or Austin Corbett) not sure what the price tag would be or if they fit our scheme. Also not sure what this does to Carman although it gives him a chance to continue to develop or just be solid depth.
RT - Another tough spot as I worry if we let Reiff go and try and fill it with the draft. We may run into trouble as we may get stuck with a guy with a day 2 grade and he may not be able to play immediately. But if we sign Reiff then that position still needs addressed in the draft I believe because Reiff didn't make it thru the year. So my thought would be sign Reiff he also adds LT depth. Then we can take a T in the draft but don't quite have the same urgency.

Something I thought about as well is if we sign Reiff and get a guard in free agency. Then we are sitting at the end of 1 and we don't like the players we could trade out of RD 1. Then we could probably take one of the same tackles we would've drafted but now in the early to mid 2nd. If we could pick up two day 2 picks this may be worth doing.

Also I thought with this off-season being especially crucial in my opinion. Along with the fact that our team is very close. Should we think about trading this years 1st along with next years to potentially move up to the 20ish range in RD 1 for the right olineman? I think Philly may be a team willing to trade as they have 3 1st rd picks. Also not sure if that would be enough draft capital to make a move like that?

I am not willing to look past this season yet, but will engage in these debates in 8 days.

I would like to see D'Ante Smith get some snaps at RG.  Pretty big assignment, I know, but Carman and Adeniji have been so poor.  

(02-06-2022, 01:14 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm just worried Linderbaum may be gone by our pick. 

No need to worry about it, because he's going to be long gone. That's a pipe dream unless he has some remarkably bad combine. 

Approach fee agency as if there is no draft.  The draft is basically a crap shoot.  

#1, half the first round guys either don't live up to expectations or are outright busts (see Ogbuehi, Cedric).

#2, we don't know who's going to be there when we pick, especially where we will be drafting.

#3, if you wait till the draft to fill immediate needs, we force ourselves to reach (see Price, William).

#4, offensive line seems to be the hardest position to develop; we are in win now mode.

On the other hand, you pretty much know what you're getting with free agents.  And as others have pointed out, there should be a line of free agent linemen hoping to sign here.

Priority order: re-sign Spain, free agent RT, possibly free agent C.  As far as RG, the jury is out on Carman.  He should be better next year.  But if they've seen enough to feel that he's not the answer, by all means a free agent RG.  We need to do all we can to upgrade at every position but LT.

Then sit back and enjoy the draft.  BPA all day.

(02-06-2022, 01:00 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: There are some good articles on developing NFL Offensive Lineman.
Here is a link to one of them.
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/21/broncos-offensive-line-nfl-draft/

It basically says Off Lineman is one of the most difficult positions to develop. It may take 3 years to reach full development. Our rookies have played a significant amount of snaps this year. here is where our Offensive Line currently stands.

Isiah Prince (24) 2019 - 6th round (Miami Dolphins) this is his 3rd year. Only played in 4 games with Miami.
Jonah Wiliams (24) 2019 - this technically his second year if you include his injury. He is getting better as the year plays on.
Hakeem Adeniji (24) - 2020 - 6th round pick finishing his second year - Jury still out on him.
Jackson Carmen (22) - 2021 - 2nd round pick in his Rookie Year
D'Ante Smith (23) - 2021 - 4th round pick in his Rookie Year
Trey Hill (22) - 2021 - 6th round pick in his Rookie Year
Fred Johnson (24) - 2019 Undrafted
Trey Hopkins (29) - 2014 Undrafted
Quinton Spain (30) - 2015 Undrafted
Riley Reiff (33) - 2012 - 1st round pick of Detorit Lions

Controlling the NFL salary cap is so crucial to NFL success. The Bengals will hope the young guys on this list will develop and therefore they will not bring in high priced free agents. At best I bet they only bring in 1 to help shore up this off line and draft another. I can see Fred Johnson not coming back and possibly Riley Reiff and Quinton Spain depending on how much money they want. They will not overpay for those guys.
They will sign Jessie Bates, Uzomah and Ogunjobi to team friendly deals.

Bates if we resign him won’t be a friendly deal. He wants to get paid. They can off set some of Bates money with Wayne’s savings. Prince will make 4 or 5 million if we resign him. He’s under 2 million now. I’d resign Reiff if he’ll take what he made last year. I think we are okay at guard. Carman is going to be the biggest improvement next year. What you really need is 3 guards and 3 tackles.

T Jonah/Reiff/ FA or Draftee
G Prince/Carman/
C FA/ Hopkins

Centers are cheaper in FA. But really whether you go center or tackle in FA then you go the other in the draft. But you need to improve it drastically. They’ve actually have an opportunity to get some great depth in the OL by adding 2 starters in FA and the draft.

I don't know they will find a day one starter on the Oline in the draft.. The draft is often a day one bust even with highly thought of prospects which is what they all are, prospects.. On the same hand, I don't know they won't find a day one starter. It's a crap shoot. I suspect they'll do both, sign a free agent or two and draft a few. If this oline was as terrible as most people think how are they making it to the superbowl? They've been both good and bad..I'd say they've been more inconsistent than just terrible.. I certainly haven't heard either Joe complain about them. If anything they give them much more praise than fans ever do.. 

Re-sign Spain.

Trust that Carman or D'ante Smith can start at RG.

Draft a RT in the 1st or 2nd round, but since we are not picking until 31-32 sign another good RT to a one-year deal to start while the rookie develops.

Center I don't know. I think we have to roll with Hopkins, but I'd definitely like to draft another OC in the top 4 rounds for 2023.

A few of the better free agent OL for 2022 with info from PFF.   Edit: added current Bengals players at each position for comparison


Right Tackle:

Trent Brown     489 snaps  1 sack  77.6 PFF 12 million a year
Morgan Moses 1022 snaps 4 sacks 71.0 PFF 7.5 million a year

Riley Reiff      711 snaps 4 sacks 67.3 PFF
Isaiah Prince   384 snaps 3 sacks 58.0 PFF


Right Guard:

Mark Glowinski  843 snaps  1 sack   70.1 PFF
Austin Corbett 1081 snaps 3 sacks   68.8 PFF 9.25 million a year

Jackson Carman 462 snaps 0 sacks 56.3 PFF
Hakeem Adeniji 555 snaps 3 sacks 48.3 PFF


Center:

Ben Jones     1160 snaps 1 sack   77.8 PFF  6.7 million a year
Ryan Jensen 1151 snaps 2 sacks  70.3 PFF  10 million a year

Trey Hopkins  928  snaps 4 sacks 51.4 PFF


Left Guard:

Conner Williams   948  snaps 1 sack   76.1 PFF  6.7 million a year  (committed a bunch of penalties)
Laken Tomlinson 1094 snaps 2 sacks  75.9 PFF  9 million a year
James Daniels     1121 snaps 3 sacks  70.0 PFF 10 million a year  (can also play center)

Quinton Spain  995 snaps 5 sacks 72.3 PFF

Time to move some draft capital and trade up for the Iowa Center.... fill out the rest of the O-Line through FA

We need to see who we get in FA before we think about the draft.
The good thing is that a lot of O-Line guys will be looking at our team now and think they will be challenging and winning for a while with the team

(02-06-2022, 01:14 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm just worried Linderbaum may be gone by our pick. 

Our first and third should be enough to move us up to pick 22 or so.  Might be just the right spot to land him. 

(02-06-2022, 02:06 PM)Brimey Wrote: No need to worry about it, because he's going to be long gone. That's a pipe dream unless he has some remarkably bad combine. 

And that's fine by me, I don't really want an undersized center. And I know, here come the "but he was a wrestler and has good technique and understands leverage" posts. But you know who else has good technique and understands leverage???? Most starting Defensive Tackles. When it comes down to good technique vs. good technique, mass is going to help with the win.