(02-11-2022, 02:40 PM)basballguy Wrote: I think it's time to give up the argument.  I also thought ZT should've had a better shot at the award until I took off my blinders and listened to all the counterpoints.  :)

I'm not sold he should've won....but he damn sure did better than fourth place and two votes. In that regard, it's definitely robbery. Vrabel did do a phenomenal job, but not 36 votes to 2 phenomenal, in my opinion.

(02-11-2022, 03:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: ZT went from being the worst HC to the best.  Burrow is the biggest confounding variable of them all.  If Burrow were abducted by aliens tomorrow I sincerely doubt the new era Bengals dynasty doesn't go with him, but meh...we will never know.

ZT could very well be the football equivalent to Pete Best if he didn't get replaced by Ringo.

Joe wasn't winning many games last season though....

(02-11-2022, 03:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All I said was that I do not know how much input he had.  Since you know tell me your source and exactly how much input Zac had.  Did he get all of the exact players that he wanted?  If not which ones did he want that he did not get?  and did the Bengals sign any players that he did not want?  If so which ones?




It is a valid when 2019 had a record low attendance at PBS.

It is valid when 2019 set al all-time team record for fewest wins.



It is not "out of nowhere" when 2019 was a record breaking season in both low attendance and wins.  Mike Brown thought the excitement over a new coach would be enough to boost ticket sales, but he was wrong.

And If Zac Taylor was too stupid to see any holes in the 2019 roster that could be addresses in free agency then he does not deserve to be an NFL head coach

Download the iHeartRadio app, listen to WLW, and you'll find a lot of these answers. There are tons of interviews that delve into all of this. From beat reporters, to team representatives, it's all discussed ad nauseam.

(02-11-2022, 03:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He also really didn't have much time to prepare for FA in 2019 coming right off the big game, picking his entire coaching staff etc.

We have seen him just steadily improve in all areas as he has had time to learn. We should give him some credit for all he has done.

Something Marvin Lewis couldn't ever do, he has won 3 Playoff games and 2 on the road which has never been done by any Bengals
Head Coach. However it has happened Zac Taylor deserves some credit in these FA's that were brought in the last couple years. DJ 
Reader, Von Bell, Quinton Spain, Trey Hendrickson, Awuzie, Hilton, Ogunjobi, the BJ Hill trade, Reiff, Apple, while adding competent 
coaches in Pollack, Hobby, Golden, Walters... we have been the least penalized team in the NFL to boot...

All these things are a big deal and I cannot help to believe that it has happened because Zac Taylor is young and can learn.

....and more importantly, WILL learn.... instead of calling adjustments "journalistic jargon" and refusing to adapt and continue to evolve. Let's hope it stays that way.

(02-12-2022, 08:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm not sold he should've won....but he damn sure did better than fourth place and two votes. In that regard, it's definitely robbery. Vrabel did do a phenomenal job, but not 36 votes to 2 phenomenal, in my opinion.

Understood, but you also may have to look at how someone may voted. They may think Vrabel was better by inch and not by a mile. Like if Vrabel wasn't an option, then Taylor wins in a landslide. 

Remember, I had to step down as Chairman, President and CEO of the Fire Zac Fan Club. After the sloppy play into the bye, it was deserved. Not so much now, but this turnaround doesn't make him Joe Gibbs.

Zac has bigger fish to fry.

(02-12-2022, 08:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: Joe wasn't winning many games last season though....

And Marvin Lewis managed to make the playoffs 7 times without having a QB like Joe Burrow...I'm just saying that the idea that Burrow couldn't win a SB with a guy who had a winning record as a Bengals HC seems a bit puzzling to me.

The idea that Burrow isn't even getting a winning season with Marvin Lewis at the helm seems a bit dismissive of Burrow and Chase and so on...but I digress.  We may as well believe that ZT is the best coach in the NFL, because he's here as long as Burrow is.


Honestly, the idea that even Joe Burrow couldn't win with Marvin here is pretty much the nicest thing that can be said about Palmer and Dalton.

(02-12-2022, 08:25 PM)Destro Wrote: Understood, but you also may have to look at how someone may voted. They may think Vrabel was better by inch and not by a mile. Like if Vrabel wasn't an option, then Taylor wins in a landslide. 

Remember, I had to step down as Chairman, President and CEO of the Fire Zac Fan Club. After the sloppy play into the bye, it was deserved. Not so much now, but this turnaround doesn't make him Joe Gibbs.

I found great humor in your pithy "Still want Zac fired" comments after each victory. Just a few words each time. 

After which game did you change?

(02-12-2022, 10:54 PM)Nepa Wrote: I found great humor in your pithy "Still want Zac fired" comments after each victory. Just a few words each time. 

After which game did you change?

Change might not be the word. I always said Zac would never get fired. Losing to the Jets and Browns back to back was horrible. Then a couple of wins, then a couple of loses...again. The play calling didn't get much better, but the wins did come. I still believe the team wins the games far, far more than his coaching does. Chiefs game didn't change my opinion, but just had to be far more appropriate for the current situation. You don't tell the bride, on her wedding day, that her groom used to be know as STD Steve in high school. It's her day. We are Who Dey! 

(02-12-2022, 08:11 PM)Wyche Wrote: Download the iHeartRadio app, listen to WLW, and you'll find a lot of these answers. There are tons of interviews that delve into all of this. From beat reporters, to team representatives, it's all discussed ad nauseam.

Why should I have to dig through hundreds of hours of interviews to prove a claim someone else made.

Since you all heard it then it is simple for you to just give me a link or at least answer my simple questions.  Does Zac have 100% control of the draft picks.  Did he just give the front office a list of players he had to have and the Bengals agreed to pay them whatever they wanted because Zac insisted these were th guys to sign?  Was there anyone he wanted that he did not get?

Why won't anyone do anything to back up claims they make?  A lot of people don't like my style, but when I make a statement at least I am always willing to post something to back it up.

(02-13-2022, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why should I have to dig through hundreds of hours of interviews to prove a claim someone else made.

Since you all heard it then it is simple for you to just give me a link or at least answer my simple questions.  Does Zac have 100% control of the draft picks.  Did he just give the front office a list of players he had to have and the Bengals agreed to pay them whatever they wanted because Zac insisted these were th guys to sign?  Was there anyone he wanted that he did not get?

Why won't anyone do anything to back up claims they make?  A lot of people don't like my style, but when I make a statement at least I am always willing to post something to back it up.

A presupposition exists by you that your posting style is the right way. It isn't. Furthermore, your perception that you also do a great job backing up your claims is erroneous. It's Super Bowl day, maybe you can post on another forum with your style instead of your being your usual unlikable self here?

(02-13-2022, 02:21 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: A presupposition exists by you that your posting style is the right way. It isn't. Furthermore, your perception that you also do a great job backing up your claims is erroneous. It's Super Bowl day, maybe you can post on another forum with your style instead of your being your usual unlikable self here?

So you got not links to anything to back up your claim, right?

In fact I don't even need a link.  Just give me the details of exactly how it worked with Zac choosing all the players.  I mean, if it is as common knowledge as you claim that shouldn't be too hard should it?  At least give me the name of the person from the Bengals front office who said Zac had all the power on personnel decisions.

And finally, what world do you come from where rhetorical discussions consist of people making claims and then insisting that the other side is required to do the research to support their claims?

(02-13-2022, 02:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you got not links to anything to back up your claim, right?

In fact I don't even need a link.  Just give me the details of exactly how it worked with Zac choosing all the players.  I mean, if it is as common knowledge as you claim that shouldn't be too hard should it?  At least give me the name of the person from the Bengals front office who said Zac had all the power on personnel decisions.

And finally, what world do you come from where rhetorical discussions consist of people making claims and then insisting that the other side is required to do the research to support their claims?

Maybe you are confused? You quoted Wyche with your link request. I'm not the one discussing Zac and player selection with you. I'm only responding to the absurdity of how you think people must post and reply on this forum.

The bold text from your post is you making another erroneous assumption. Not every post and conversation here is rhetorical discourse. Many posts here are just informal conversations between people. 

Since I think you're unlikeable, I'm not directly answering your personal question about "the world I come from" other than I recognize interreacting with people on this board isn't always a back and forth rhetorical discussion between people trying to prove who is right.


 

(02-12-2022, 08:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: ....and more importantly, WILL learn.... instead of calling adjustments "journalistic jargon" and refusing to adapt and continue to evolve. Let's hope it stays that way.

Exactly.

(02-13-2022, 02:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you got not links to anything to back up your claim, right?

In fact I don't even need a link.  Just give me the details of exactly how it worked with Zac choosing all the players.  I mean, if it is as common knowledge as you claim that shouldn't be too hard should it?  At least give me the name of the person from the Bengals front office who said Zac had all the power on personnel decisions.

And finally, what world do you come from where rhetorical discussions consist of people making claims and then insisting that the other side is required to do the research to support their claims?

Jesus Christ, you never stop.. It's ***** Super Bowl Sunday and the Bengals are playing. Who ***** cares right now..

(02-13-2022, 03:06 PM)Tony Wrote: Jesus Christ, you never stop.. It's ***** Super Bowl Sunday and the Bengals are playing. Who ***** cares right now..

Dude wants to argue on Super Bowl Sunday...

Seriously Fred, WTF?

(02-13-2022, 03:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dude wants to argue on Super Bowl Sunday...

Seriously Fred, WTF?

Absolute lost cause that one.

(02-13-2022, 03:06 PM)Tony Wrote: Jesus Christ, you never stop.. It's ***** Super Bowl Sunday and the Bengals are playing. Who ***** cares right now..

Tony, ya gave me a good LOL. I'm stupid for even replying to toasty.

Enjoy the game dude!

(02-13-2022, 03:06 PM)Tony Wrote: Jesus Christ, you never stop.. It's ***** Super Bowl Sunday and the Bengals are playing. Who ***** cares right now..

Well obviously you care a lot considering how you are losing your head and swearing so much.

(02-13-2022, 03:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dude wants to argue on Super Bowl Sunday...

Seriously Fred, WTF?

(02-13-2022, 03:13 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Absolute lost cause that one.

Ah, I see.  .  .  

"Super Bowl Sunday.  .  .  the day where it is okay for board members to talk bad about another one, but he is not allowed to speak in his own defense."

Good thing we have you guys as the moral compass around here.