C,G,T and a physical TE we can be back and win. I love Hopkins for his time here but we can do better. CJ We can keep as a number 2 TE but we need another extremely athletic blocker and receiver. We need more than 2 quality T next year depth is important as well Oline is our only weakness. Hargreaves should be instantly released

(02-14-2022, 10:55 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: C,G,T and a physical TE we can be back and win. I love Hopkins for his time here but we can do better. CJ We can keep as a number 2 TE but we need another extremely athletic blocker and receiver. We need more than 2 quality T next year depth is important as well Oline is our only weakness. Hargreaves should be instantly released

I'm prioritizing G and T before TE and C.
Uzomah is probably going to command at least $5 mill. I'm not giving that to a TE2.
If Uzomah isn't going to be the starter, I'd rather just pursue a different vet TE.
I'm ok with replacing Hopkins, but those options are few and far between.
There's only one C in the draft I feel can come in and be an upgrade as a rookie, and only maybe a few FA options.

Here's what i'm curious about:

Is it possible not all of them are bad? Like can a bad center make it harder for guards to be good?

I wonder if bringing in a few vets would be the best way to handle the line.

(02-14-2022, 11:12 AM)basballguy Wrote: Here's what i'm curious about:

Is it possible not all of them are bad?  Like can a bad center make it harder for guards to be good?  

I wonder if bringing in a few vets would be the best way to handle the line.

I know enough to know I don't know anything, but I think you pose an interesting question. If one or two of the OL players are replaced with better talent, is it possible elevated play occurs for the other OL? Just as you question, would an upgrade at Center, for example, improve OL communication (or other skills) and help the other positions be better?

(02-14-2022, 11:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm prioritizing G and T before TE and C.
Uzomah is probably going to command at least $5 mill. I'm not giving that to a TE2.
If Uzomah isn't going to be the starter, I'd rather just pursue a different vet TE.
I'm ok with replacing Hopkins, but those options are few and far between.
There's only one C in the draft I feel can come in and be an upgrade as a rookie, and only maybe a few FA options.

I'm looking at Morgan Moses to play RT and James Daniels to play RG (with some back up C potential). I think Hopkins was pretty solid the back half of the year so I am willing to give him one year post surgery to see how he does. If we aren't comfortable, Ben Jones is available and would probably be a solid upgrade. I would run it back with Spain at LG if we can get the money right which I think we will be able to.

TE I am kind of in agreement with you. I wouldn't mind kicking the tires on someone like David Njoku but he will probably command too much money so we may go for continuity and locker presence with CJ.

Its pretty telling that Burrow can't get a yard on a QB sneak in short yardage it's an indictment on Hopkins

(02-14-2022, 11:44 AM)Au165 Wrote: I'm looking at Morgan Moses to play RT and James Daniels to play RG (with some back up C potential).

^This

Bengals don't need a bushel of OL picks, or to "order 5 new OL in free agency" or any other rash reactions.  They just need two hardnosed blockers with a strong desire to dominate their opponents to play RG and RT.

I'm all in favor of a plan like Au165 has laid out, while also drafting the RT of the future and upgrading the bench stock on interior OL.  It's rather obvious that neither Fred Johnson or Isaiah Prince are the RT of the future, and Hakeem Adeniji is at his full potential as a multi-positional backup.  Time to sign a couple starters and reload the developmental stock.

(02-14-2022, 11:57 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: ^This

Bengals don't need a bushel of OL picks, or to "order 5 new OL in free agency" or any other rash reactions.  They just need two hardnosed blockers with a strong desire to dominate their opponents to play RG and RT.

I'm all in favor of a plan like Au165 has laid out, while also drafting the RT of the future and upgrading the bench stock on interior OL.  It's rather obvious that neither Fred Johnson or Isaiah Prince are the RT of the future, and Hakeem Adeniji is at his full potential as a multi-positional backup.  Time to sign a couple starters and reload the developmental stock.

I'd like to know the long term plan for Smith. I think he can be the RT of the future. I also wouldn't abandon Carman just yet as the future of RG either, we just need an answer right now. Hell, to be fair James Daniels didn't really hit his stride until year 4.

(02-14-2022, 11:57 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: ^This

Bengals don't need a bushel of OL picks, or to "order 5 new OL in free agency" or any other rash reactions.  They just need two hardnosed blockers with a strong desire to dominate their opponents to play RG and RT.

I'm all in favor of a plan like Au165 has laid out, while also drafting the RT of the future and upgrading the bench stock on interior OL.  It's rather obvious that neither Fred Johnson or Isaiah Prince are the RT of the future, and Hakeem Adeniji is at his full potential as a multi-positional backup.  Time to sign a couple starters and reload the developmental stock.

Exactly.

What is telling is, we don't need to sign a stud O-Lineman to get better. Just need to somehow get two that are better than the ones we got. Should be easy, but we will see. I don't trust the draft to be honest with you. Their #1 focus should be RG then RT. While I wanted Hopkins gone, he did improve down the stretch and I thought he was decent yesterday. He is a year removed from ACL tear and will be healthier next year. 

(02-14-2022, 12:00 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'd like to know the long term plan for Smith. I think he can be the RT of the future. I also wouldn't abandon Carman just yet as the future of RG either, we just need an answer right now. Hell, to be fair James Daniels didn't really hit his stride until year 4.

I guess I should have been more specific when identifying guys to move on from, as I meant Fred Johnson, Isaiah Prince, and Hakeem Adeniji.  I do agree with you about giving D'ante Smith and Cartman time to develop.

For once, we have some great depth on the O-line. The fact that we got to a Super Bowl with Prince and Adenji on the right side means we have guys that can step in and play winning football for a 5 game stretch. That's the goal for your depth guys. You can't expect them to hold down the LA Rams front or the Titans. To get to where we are is a huge testament to Burrow and the skill guys. We need to get front line guys at RG and RT.

Given the value the front office places on OG, it will be interesting to see what happens. I think they sign 1 (possibly 2) lineman. My preference would be the following:

1. James Daniels. I wanted him coming out in the draft and I think he would be a great fit here and could play center as well.
2. Austin Corbett. I don't think he comes with a huge price tag, but he would also be a good fit.

I just don't know what to think about RT. The free agent options aren't great and I don't want to force a OT pick at 31.

(02-14-2022, 11:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm prioritizing G and T before TE and C.
Uzomah is probably going to command at least $5 mill. I'm not giving that to a TE2.
If Uzomah isn't going to be the starter, I'd rather just pursue a different vet TE.
I'm ok with replacing Hopkins, but those options are few and far between.
There's only one C in the draft I feel can come in and be an upgrade as a rookie, and only maybe a few FA options.

A solid Center seems so necessary to captain an oline. Bradley Bozeman is only 27 and a FA.  A leader and could develop great chemistry with Joe.

Hopkins graded out 35th out oof 39 Centers - is that really what we want for Joe?  I think it is important to find a guy.

They need upgrades at all three positions- center , rg, and rt

A couple of people jumped me during the draft last year when I shared a report from my Clemson insider friend that Jackson Carmen was not a second round prospect. . I am not optimistic about his potential. The kid from ECU who got hurt might be better.

Don’t screw around this year on doing whatever is needed to protect Burrow. Way way more important than keeping a slot wr- as much as I love
83 or overspending to keep Bates or others.

Thanks to all my friends on this board, many of whom know way more than me for letting me vent. I love our little community and remain grateful to our fabtastic moderators.

Taking a break now until free agency. Great season for our guys despite falling just short. Learn and build.

You see what having DJ Reader does for the defense (and what it looks like wo him). He makes the whole unit better by not getting bullied in the trenches, getting push off the snap. That is needed on the other side of the ball. Having a bull in the trenches on the offensive line would do wonders for the run game, which would in turn do wonders for the passing game and play action opportunities, helping keep the defense more honest.

(02-14-2022, 01:38 PM)casear2727 Wrote: A solid Center seems so necessary to captain an oline. Bradley Bozeman is only 27 and a FA.  A leader and could develop great chemistry with Joe.

Hopkins graded out 35th out oof 39 Centers - is that really what we want for Joe?  I think it is important to find a guy.

Ben Jones and Ryan Jensen are both free agents.  Either one would be a major improvement over Hopkins.  I would prefer Jones but he may be harder to lure away from the Titans than Jensen would be for the Bucs

(02-14-2022, 02:09 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Ben Jones and Ryan Jensen are both free agents.  Either one would be a major improvement over Hopkins.  I would prefer Jones but he may be harder to lure away from the Titans than Jensen would be for the Bucs

Brent Bozeman of the Ravens is only 27 and comes a little bit cheaper but is very solid.

(02-14-2022, 02:17 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Brent Bozeman of the Ravens is only 27 and comes a little bit cheaper but is very solid.

Bozeman might not be a bad option.  One of the main criteria I was looking at is sacks allowed at each of these positions along the O-line.  Of course sacks allowed doesnt tell you everything but when comparing the 3, Bozeman gave up 3 sacks, Jensen gave up 2 sacks and Jones gave up 1 sack for the year.  If the Bengals could cut down on the sacks at every position along the O-line, it would help Burrow and the team a great deal. 

And again there is more to picking someone than sacks allowed.  You also have QB pressure, win rate, how well they do in run blocking and even who they had to play against.  You could play a schedule where you dont have to go up against the top D-lines and have slightly better stats than another Offensive lineman that has faced better D-lines.  That wouldnt mean the O-lineman with better stats is the better player when they didnt face the same tough competition.

(02-14-2022, 01:38 PM)casear2727 Wrote: A solid Center seems so necessary to captain an oline. Bradley Bozeman is only 27 and a FA.  A leader and could develop great chemistry with Joe.

Hopkins graded out 35th out oof 39 Centers - is that really what we want for Joe?  I think it is important to find a guy.

I haven't watched much of Bozeman lately to see if the narrative has changed, but I remember him during the draft being a guy who is was a better fit for a power man scheme that drives off the LOS, not an athletic guy who can succeed on the move.
I worry that he'd struggle changing the Ravens scheme to what Pollack runs.
Probably better luck going after Ben Jones or Brian Allen if looking for a FA replacement.
Or James Daniels and move him to C, which he played back at Iowa.

(02-14-2022, 02:36 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Bozeman might not be a bad option.  One of the main criteria I was looking at is sacks allowed at each of these positions along the O-line.  Of course sacks allowed doesnt tell you everything but when comparing the 3, Bozeman gave up 3 sacks, Jensen gave up 2 sacks and Jones gave up 1 sack for the year.  If the Bengals could cut down on the sacks at every position along the O-line, it would help Burrow and the team a great deal. 

And again there is more to picking someone than sacks allowed.  You also have QB pressure, win rate, how well they do in run blocking and even who they had to play against.  You could play a schedule where you dont have to go up against the top D-lines and have slightly better stats than another Offensive lineman that has faced better D-lines.  That wouldnt mean the O-lineman with better stats is the better player when they didnt face the same tough competition.

Hopkins only gave up 4 sacks this year, according to PFF. And from what I remember, most of those happened before the bye while he was continuing to recover from his Dec 2020 injury.

Completely agree with you though when looking at Hopkins in the run game. He's never been a good OL when it comes to driving off the LOS.

(02-14-2022, 02:09 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Ben Jones and Ryan Jensen are both free agents.  Either one would be a major improvement over Hopkins.  I would prefer Jones but he may be harder to lure away from the Titans than Jensen would be for the Bucs

Both are solid C's, but both over 30. The Bengals might care about that, maybe they won't.
They didn't seem to care when signing Reiff, but Reiff was always intended to be just a stopgap, I believe.