We'll find out soon whether or not team management has truly changed. In years past, we've seen glaring weaknesses totally ignored or treated with a knock-off brand band-aid. This year we went to the Super Bowl with one of the worst O-lines in the league. Everyone and their brother knows we need 3-4 new starters. The front office knows it and they know that we know they know it. Do they throw their hands up and sign a below average to average guard/tackle just to check the box? Or, do they get serious about the one glaring weakness on this team and sign/draft several bona fide stud linemen?

I think they know the window is only a couple of more years with Joe on his rookie deal. Surely they also know they can't continue to abuse him without him quitting or having a career ending injury. Common sense says you hit the problem hard and solidify your place as a powerhouse for at least the next 3 years. But as you well know, the Bengals FO sometimes likes to do things their own special way.

Personally, with us being so close to the summit, I will be completely and utterly disheartened if they chose not to fix something that could so easily be done. If they go after the problem aggressively, we'll definitely be in the mix for more titles in the next few seasons.

(02-14-2022, 04:15 PM)wcu Wrote: We'll find out soon whether or not team management has truly changed. In years past, we've seen glaring weaknesses totally ignored or treated with a knock-off brand band-aid. This year we went to the Super Bowl with one of the worst O-lines in the league. Everyone and their brother knows we need 3-4 new starters. The front office knows it and they know that we know they know it. Do they throw their hands up and sign a below average to average guard/tackle just to check the box? Or, do they get serious about the one glaring weakness on this team and sign/draft several bona fide stud linemen?

I think they know the window is only a couple of more years with Joe on his rookie deal. Surely they also know they can't continue to abuse him without him quitting or having a career ending injury. Common sense says you hit the problem hard and solidify your place as a powerhouse for at least the next 3 years. But as you well know, the Bengals FO sometimes likes to do things their own special way.

Personally, with us being so close to the summit, I will be completely and utterly disheartened if they chose not to fix something that could so easily be done. If they go after the problem aggressively, we'll definitely be in the mix for more titles in the next few seasons.

They don’t have a choice if they want to keep burrow. This kid knows he is good and seems big into the media. I don’t see him staying here long term unless they are committed.

If they had won I could easily see cheap skate owner saying look at what we built and doing nothing but the draft

Maybe something good comes out from losing

Anybody know what are our free agent options for upgrading the OL? Or any potential trades (as much as I'd hate to see him go, Tyler Boyd for a really good OL would be pretty good; hell, we can give up draft picks too if the guy is good enough)?

This little Super Bowl sojourn of ours has taken us out of range for most of the immediate impact first round OL in the draft. OL should still be the pick in rounds 1, 2 and 3 but it scares me because they’re going to have a great excuse to pick another position at #31 due to “best player available” excuse.

(02-14-2022, 04:15 PM)wcu Wrote: We'll find out soon whether or not team management has truly changed.  In years past, we've seen glaring weaknesses totally ignored or treated with a knock-off brand band-aid.  This year we went to the Super Bowl with one of the worst O-lines in the league.  Everyone and their brother knows we need 3-4 new starters.  The front office knows it and they know that we know they know it.  Do they throw their hands up and sign a below average to average guard/tackle just to check the box?  Or, do they get serious about the one glaring weakness on this team and sign/draft several bona fide stud linemen?  

I think they know the window is only a couple of more years with Joe on his rookie deal.  Surely they also know they can't continue to abuse him without him quitting or having a career ending injury.  Common sense says you hit the problem hard and solidify your place as a powerhouse for at least the next 3 years.  But as you well know, the Bengals FO sometimes likes to do things their own special way.

Personally, with us being so close to the summit, I will be completely and utterly disheartened if they chose not to fix something that could so easily be done.  If they go after the problem aggressively, we'll definitely be in the mix for more titles in the next few seasons.

Well i big weakness was our defense and they sure addressed that, like a remodel of a home, you don;t always have the $$ to do it in a year... so we got our defense right, now we will turn our attention to our oline.

The thing is, they have been trying to fix the offensive line for years. Drafting Ced/Fisher/Price/Williams. They traded for Cordy Glenn. Brought in Reiff/Spain/XSF. Drafted Carman. Drafted some other guys.

Management has been trying to fix the offensive line...it just hasn't worked.

People act like it's as easy as just signing the 2-3 best offensive lineman. Many teams need lineman. It's going to be competitive.

I think the FO will make moves to fix the oline. I am not confident they will go all out, but will do something.

If the FO fails to bring in upper level veterans on the oline in the next couple months many people will owe Carson Palmer an apology.

(02-14-2022, 04:19 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Anybody know what are our free agent options for upgrading the OL? Or any potential trades (as much as I'd hate to see him go, Tyler Boyd for a really good OL would be pretty good; hell, we can give up draft picks too if the guy is good enough)?

Jenson will be a target at C.  I think Bengals will have enough cap space for maybe two OL.  They may have to make a trade to get that RT or RG of future.  

(02-14-2022, 04:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, they have been trying to fix the offensive line for years. Drafting Ced/Fisher/Price/Williams. They traded for Cordy Glenn. Brought in Reiff/Spain/XSF. Drafted Carman. Drafted some other guys.

Management has been trying to fix the offensive line...it just hasn't worked.

People act like it's as easy as just signing the 2-3 best offensive lineman. Many teams need lineman. It's going to be competitive.

I keep saying we need to increase our scout team of 6 when most others have 26.  Look no further than our oline picks the last 10 years.

Which one of Cordy Glenn/Reiff/Spain/XSF was an upper level lineman and in their prime?  Any signing like this simply proves Carson right.

It is not difficult to sign 3 top tier, not elite, but upper level linemen with a lot of cap space along with freeing up more cash by getting rid of salaries of positions that do not warrant the high amount.

I've highlighted current and former Bengals for reference. Obviously some of these guys are on rookie deals, so their pay is not indicative of what they can expect to receive in FA. It's pretty telling that our 2nd best Olineman is so far down on the list.

2022 O-line free agents and their approximate salaries:

G Brandon Scherff $18 million
T Nate Solder $15.5
T Cam Robinson $13.75
G Andrew Norwell $13.3
T Terron Armstead $13
T Duane Brown $11.5
C Ryan Jensen $10.5
C Matt Paradis $9.7
T Trent Brown $9
C Jason Kelce $9
G Laurent Duvernay-Tardif $8.5
T Eric Fisher $8.4
T Riley Reiff $7.5
T Chris Hubbard $7.3
C Ben Jones $6.75
G Alex Lewis $6.2
G Laken Tomlinson $5.5
G Mark Glowinski $5.4
G AJ Cann $5
T Brandon Shell $4.5
T Germain Ifedi $4.25
T Morgan Moses $3.6
G Dan Feeney $3.5
T Matt Gono $3.4
T Mike Remmers $3.3
C Justin Britt $3.2
G Trai Turner $3
C Ted Karras $3
G Ethan Pocic $3
G Billy Price $3
T Sam Tevi $2.5
T Bobby Massie $2.5
G Rashod Hill $2.4
G Ike Boettger $2.1
G Richie Incognito $2.1
C Tyler Shatley $2
T Cornelius Lucas $1.9
G Austin Corbett $1.9
G Will Hernandez $1.9
T Ty Nsekhe $1.75
T Jason Peters $1.75
G James Daniels $1.75
G Trenton Scott $1.65
T Oday Aboushi $1.6
G Kyle Long $1.5
G Lucas Patrick $1.5
G Connor Williams $1.4
T Conor McDermott $1.35
T Dennis Kelly $1.3
C Nick Martin $1.25
G Aaron Stinnie $1.25
T Julien Davenport $1.25
C Josh Andrews $1.25
G Chris Reed $1.1
T Josh Wells $1.1
G Elijah Wilkenson $1.1
G Max Garcia $1.1
G John Miller $1.1
G Quinton Spain $1.1

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line/all/

(02-14-2022, 04:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I keep saying we need to increase our scout team of 6 when most others have 26.  Look no further than our oline picks the last 10 years.

Which one of Cordy Glenn/Reiff/Spain/XSF was an upper level lineman and in their prime?  Any signing like this simply proves Carson right.

It is not difficult to sign 3 top tier, not elite, but upper level linemen with a lot of cap space along with freeing up more cash by getting rid of salaries of positions that do not warrant the high amount.

Glenn was a Top 10 guy at his position. But, he was coming off of injuries and kind of starting the downswing...and he didn't want to be here. I feel like some players saw the inexperience of this coaching staff and wanted nothing to do with it.

Reiff wasn't a bad signing. He just got hurt. When he got hurt, the line tanked. The line was way better when he played.

Spain is an ok Guard. For what he's paid, he's a steal.

XSF? He had some good games in Dallas, but was always hurt...as he's been here.

The thing is, there just aren't 25 year old Top 10 at their position lineman out there to be signed cheap. Offensive line is a premium position. The good ones get franchise tagged. Like I've wanted Scherff for a few years, but he gets franchise tagged. I wanted Thuney a couple years ago and the Chiefs gave him a massive contract- 5 years $80 million.

The Chiefs made a big effort to upgrade their line...and...didn't make the SB. With a worse line 2 years ago they made the SB. That's the funny thing about the NFL.

Sporting New Top 100 prospects, oline only:

3. Ikem Ekwonu, OT, NC State (6-4, 320 pounds)
5. Evan Neal, OT, Alabama (6-7, 350 pounds)
8. Tyler Linderbaum, C, Iowa (6-3, 290 pounds)
10. Charles Cross, OT, Mississippi State (6-5, 310 pounds)
14. Kenyon Green, G, Texas A&M (6-4, 325 pounds)
24. Trevor Penning, OT, Northern Iowa (6-7, 321 pounds)
35. Nicholas Petit-Frere, OT, Ohio State (6-5, 315 pounds)
36. Zion Johnson, OT/G, Boston College (6-3, 316 pounds)
44. Bernhard Raimann, OT, Central Michigan (6-7, 305 pounds)
55. Darian Kinnard, OT/G, Kentucky (6-5, 345 pounds)
60. Daniel Faalele, OT, Minnesota (6-9, 380 pounds)
66. Sean Rhyan, OT/G, UCLA (6-5, 320 pounds)
68. Max Mitchell, OT, Louisiana (6-6, 297 pounds)
86. Kellen Diesch, OT, Arizona State (6-7, 300 pounds)
88. Thayer Munford, OT/G Ohio State (6-6, 321 pounds)
94. Rasheed Walker, OT, Penn State (6-6, 320 pounds)
95. Dylan Parham, G, Memphis (6-2, 315 pounds)
97. Jamaree Salyer, OT/G, Georgia (6-4, 325 pounds)

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-draft-prospects-2022-player-rankings-big-board/smvhiguv7ldoddglayxdpe15

(02-14-2022, 04:40 PM)wcu Wrote: I've highlighted current and former Bengals for reference.  Obviously some of these guys are on rookie deals, so their pay is not indicative of what they can expect to receive in FA.  It's pretty telling that our 2nd best Olineman is so far down on the list.

2022 O-line free agents and their approximate salaries:

G Brandon Scherff $18 million
T Nate Solder $15.5
T Cam Robinson $13.75
G Andrew Norwell $13.3
T Terron Armstead $13
T Duane Brown $11.5
C Ryan Jensen $10.5
C Matt Paradis $9.7
T Trent Brown $9
C Jason Kelce $9
G Laurent Duvernay-Tardif $8.5
T Eric Fisher $8.4
T Riley Reiff $7.5
T Chris Hubbard $7.3
C Ben Jones $6.75
G Alex Lewis $6.2
G Laken Tomlinson $5.5
G Mark Glowinski $5.4
G AJ Cann $5
T Brandon Shell $4.5
T Germain Ifedi $4.25
T Morgan Moses $3.6
G Dan Feeney $3.5
T Matt Gono $3.4
T Mike Remmers $3.3
C Justin Britt $3.2
G Trai Turner $3
C Ted Karras $3
G Ethan Pocic $3
G Billy Price $3
T Sam Tevi $2.5
T Bobby Massie $2.5
G Rashod Hill $2.4
G Ike Boettger $2.1
G Richie Incognito $2.1
C Tyler Shatley $2
T Cornelius Lucas $1.9
G Austin Corbett $1.9
G Will Hernandez $1.9
T Ty Nsekhe $1.75
T Jason Peters $1.75
G James Daniels $1.75
G Trenton Scott $1.65
T Oday Aboushi $1.6
G Kyle Long $1.5
G Lucas Patrick $1.5
G Connor Williams $1.4
T Conor McDermott $1.35
T Dennis Kelly $1.3
C Nick Martin $1.25
G Aaron Stinnie $1.25
T Julien Davenport $1.25
C Josh Andrews $1.25
G Chris Reed $1.1
T Josh Wells $1.1
G Elijah Wilkenson $1.1
G Max Garcia $1.1
G John Miller $1.1
G Quinton Spain $1.1

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line/all/

That's a good list and I've wanted us to sign some of those guys.

I'd look at Connor Williams at Guard - Projected around $6.67 million a year. James Daniels at around $10 million a year.

Jensen is 31 and projected to cost about $10 million a year.

2022 NFL Free Agency Rankings: Interior Offensive Linemen | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

(02-14-2022, 04:19 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Anybody know what are our free agent options for upgrading the OL? Or any potential trades (as much as I'd hate to see him go, Tyler Boyd for a really good OL would be pretty good; hell, we can give up draft picks too if the guy is good enough)?

Drafting is a crap shoot and is probably not the direction we should take when there are some proven good free agents available that could help us for sure right now.  None of these free agents are elite but we could dramatically improve the O-line over what we have.

At center you have Ben Jones and Ryan Jensen

At right guard you have Mark Glowinski and Austin Corbett

At right tackle you have Trent Brown and Morgan Moses

At left guard you have Conner Williams, Laken Tomlinson and James Daniels (who can also play center)


All of these guys would get between 6 million to 12 million a year and would be upgrades over what we currently have.  We have enough cap money to sign all 4 positions and be well under the cap plus you save some money not needing to pay Hopkins, Spain or Reiff.  There is no reason we shouldnt go after these guys in free agency.  They are proven, they wouldnt bust the cap and we would have a much better O-line

 

(02-14-2022, 04:50 PM)wcu Wrote: Sporting New Top 100 prospects, oline only:

3. Ikem Ekwonu, OT, NC State (6-4, 320 pounds)
5. Evan Neal, OT, Alabama (6-7, 350 pounds)
8. Tyler Linderbaum, C, Iowa (6-3, 290 pounds)
10. Charles Cross, OT, Mississippi State (6-5, 310 pounds)
14. Kenyon Green, G, Texas A&M (6-4, 325 pounds)
24. Trevor Penning, OT, Northern Iowa (6-7, 321 pounds)
35. Nicholas Petit-Frere, OT, Ohio State (6-5, 315 pounds)
36. Zion Johnson, OT/G, Boston College (6-3, 316 pounds)
44.  Bernhard Raimann, OT, Central Michigan (6-7, 305 pounds)
55. Darian Kinnard, OT/G, Kentucky (6-5, 345 pounds)
60. Daniel Faalele, OT, Minnesota (6-9, 380 pounds)
66. Sean Rhyan, OT/G, UCLA (6-5, 320 pounds)
68. Max Mitchell, OT, Louisiana (6-6, 297 pounds)
86. Kellen Diesch, OT, Arizona State (6-7, 300 pounds)
88. Thayer Munford, OT/G Ohio State (6-6, 321 pounds)
94. Rasheed Walker, OT, Penn State (6-6, 320 pounds)
95. Dylan Parham, G, Memphis (6-2, 315 pounds)
97. Jamaree Salyer, OT/G, Georgia (6-4, 325 pounds)

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-draft-prospects-2022-player-rankings-big-board/smvhiguv7ldoddglayxdpe15

Drafting prospects on offensive line hasn't worked too well.

At the range we're drafting...pass rushers/CB/maybe a Center or Guard. TE maybe. I strongly prefer to sign lineman.

(02-14-2022, 04:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Glenn was a Top 10 guy at his position. But, he was coming off of injuries and kind of starting the downswing...and he didn't want to be here. I feel like some players saw the inexperience of this coaching staff and wanted nothing to do with it.

Reiff wasn't a bad signing. He just got hurt. When he got hurt, the line tanked. The line was way better when he played.

Spain is an ok Guard. For what he's paid, he's a steal.

XSF? He had some good games in Dallas, but was always hurt...as he's been here.

The thing is, there just aren't 25 year old Top 10 at their position lineman out there to be signed cheap. Offensive line is a premium position. The good ones get franchise tagged. Like I've wanted Scherff for a few years, but he gets franchise tagged. I wanted Thuney a couple years ago and the Chiefs gave him a massive contract- 5 years $80 million.

The Chiefs made a big effort to upgrade their line...and...didn't make the SB. With a worse line 2 years ago they made the SB. That's the funny thing about the NFL.

Yeah, that was my take for each of those as well.

Bradley Bozeman of the Ravens only 27 isnt at elite pay nor is the 26 year old guard Conner Williams of Dallas both good young upgrades.

(02-14-2022, 05:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Yeah, that was my take for each of those as well.

Bradley Bozeman of the Ravens only 27 isnt at elite pay nor is the 26 year old guard Conner Williams of Dallas both good young upgrades.

We really never recovered from whiffing on Ced/Fisher/Price. Hit on 1 of them even and things look at lot better.

(02-14-2022, 05:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We really never recovered from whiffing on Ced/Fisher/Price. Hit on 1 of them even and things look at lot better.

No doubt. That series of picks set the team back years. 

(02-14-2022, 05:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We really never recovered from whiffing on Ced/Fisher/Price. Hit on 1 of them even and things look at lot better.

Whiffing on those guys put us behind 4-5 years at least.  That Ogbuehi/Fisher draft was disasterous.

(02-14-2022, 05:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We really never recovered from whiffing on Ced/Fisher/Price. Hit on 1 of them even and things look at lot better.

This right here.  Says it all. We had 3 1st Round busts in 4 years, just a killer.