(02-15-2022, 10:14 AM)samhain Wrote: I hate it, but to me the toughest questions are Bates and Uzomah.  Bates is arguably the most important player on the defense and has the ability to man single high as well as anyone in the league.  H's role is unquestioned and his play has been on a level that makes him incredibly expensive.  I've seen projections as high as 17 mil, which to me is getting a little crazy.  12-13?  That's easier to digest, but still a lot.

Uzomah is a guy that everyone loves and is a clear leader on the team.  He's also a solid pass catcher and blocker.  He's not quite a top tier tight end, though.  

My issue with giving Uzomah 6-7 mil per over 3-4 more years is not easy for me to want to believe.  Unfortunately, he's probably this team's 5th offensive option behind a no doubt number 1 receiver, a borderline number 1 receiver right behind him, a top end slot guy, and a very good running back.  Is that role worth that kind of investment?  Does the team lose anything that would cripple that loaded of an offense if he's no longer on the team?  I hate saying it, but I don't think it does.  I don't see him bringing 7 mil worth of value compared to what investing that amount in capable OL would.  This is a tough decision, but I assure fellow fans that even tougher ones loom in the coming years.  Leadership and culture standard bearers are important, but this team has an undeniable leader at the quarterback position.

I suppose the idea I'm coming around to is this: This offense was plenty potent this year.  It was still pretty limited at times due to the substandard line play.  We have a quarterback that thrives on taking advantage of developing long plays that was forced to unload the ball in a half second on Sunday.  The game plans that protect him don't render him totally ineffective, but they definitely neuter the offensive play selection.  The weakness up front is dictating game plans, and even when they try to ignore it as they did in the 2nd half Sunday, they are quickly reminded of why it's a dangerous idea.

When you look at what you might give up to buy time for the qb, you aren't just looking at preserving his health.  You're talking about unleashing aspects of an offense and core of young talent that we haven't yet in the best case scenario.  The losses you sustain in free agency should be more than accounted for when the offense can actually cash in on plays like the Chase jailbreak route on the final drive of the 4th quarter Sunday.  How many more of those are we missing out on?

Great post.  I would add that Logan Wilson and Mike Hilton have stepped big time in importance. Our DE's are huge as is Von Bell.  DJ Reader is a leader - we are not void of leadership without Bates.  

Burrow brings a lot of happiness but in a couple years things will tighten up big time and this off season is so crucial because of that, especially if those we sign are on 3 year deals.

Owner about 2 1/2 decades ago...

(02-14-2022, 08:09 PM)Bengals-Man12345 Wrote: TE- I think Uzomah is worth about 5 mill don't yall think? 

CB- We are known for drafting high round CB's (Hall, Joesph, Jackson, Denard, Kirk,) so I think that's a route we could possibly go especially if we hit on some FA OL. 

S- We want to be a perennial playoff team. Well in the playoffs this year en route to a super bowl Bates played extremely well. I think you would have to pay him. 

DT- Either Hill or Ogenjobi can be signed for decent  contracts. Maybe even both. Draft whatever DT is in the 4th round. Hehe. 


Getting rid of Wayne's contract will really help. 
What really hurts my heart though is that Boyd might not be worth his contract on the current iteration of the bengals. 

Hard to say. Uzomah is currently making $6.1 mill, and he just had his best season. I think $6-7 mill is fair for him.
Also not sure about drafting a CB high. Bengals haven't done it since Taylor took over, but they had success with it under Marvin.
If they go that route, there should be some good CBs available in Rds 1-2 for sure.
I could also see Anarumo wanting to address CB in FA, which is what he's done very heavily so far.

(02-15-2022, 11:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Hard to say. Uzomah is currently making $6.1 mill, and he just had his best season. I think $6-7 mill is fair for him.
Also not sure about drafting a CB high. Bengals haven't done it since Taylor took over, but they had success with it under Marvin.
If they go that route, there should be some good CBs available in Rds 1-2 for sure.
I could also see Anarumo wanting to address CB in FA, which is what he's done very heavily so far.

The Bengals have been intentional in FA by signing defensive players who also have NFL playoff experience. I've not yet looked at the FA class, but are there any CBs who have talent and have been in the playoffs excluding our own players?

(02-14-2022, 05:31 PM)J24 Wrote: I would trade Boyd to make room for the cap.
Some team would give you a relative high draft pick for him (GB, TB, LV, NE, Or Dal),  Chase will probably play more slot as he grows into this offense, and we have two elite Wrs as is do we really need another?

Yes, because on any given play in a game or practice we could instantly be down to one. How many times do we have to suffer with one good receiver before people realize that.

(02-15-2022, 11:08 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yes, because on any given play in a game or practice we could instantly be down to one. How many times do we have to suffer with one good receiver before people realize that.

Makes a lot of sense, but WR is also a position they've been very good at drafting recently.
Do you trust Bengals to draft an OL or WR that can contribute immediately?
I'd lean WR.


With that said, I'd only look to move on from Boyd if it meant using that $$ toward signing an upgrade at a clear position of need like OL, DT, or DB.
I'm not moving on from him just to carry more $$ into next year's cap.

RB, rationale:

1) Taylor and Burrow are running an offense that passes 70%+ of the time.
2) Higgins and Chase are the young studs at WR & on rookie deals. This necessitates the offense is going to use them as weapons.
3) Many teams go with the trend of not investing a high draft pick in RBs or investing a lot of dollars into the position.

I'd say buh bye Mixon and invest a 2nd to 4th round pick on a RB replacement to free up money for the OL. I fully note that I am not one to seek understanding about NFL contracts and related cap space issues, so I'm guessing "ditch Mixon and save money" isn't as easy as I suggest.

(02-15-2022, 11:33 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: RB, rationale:

1) Taylor and Burrow are running an offense that passes 70%+ of the time.
2) Higgins and Chase are the young studs at WR & on rookie deals. This necessitates the offense is going to use them as weapons.
3) Many teams go with the trend of not investing a high draft pick in RBs or investing a lot of dollars into the position.

I'd say buh bye Mixon and invest a 2nd to 4th round pick on a RB replacement to free up money for the OL. I fully note that I am not one to seek understanding about NFL contracts and related cap space issues, so I'm guessing "ditch Mixon and save money" isn't as easy as I suggest.

Mixon is set to make $11.42 mill this coming season.
He'll have a dead cap of $8.25 mill if team moves on from him (trade or released).
So it'd just be a savings of just about $3.1 mill.
I don't know of the Bengals letting a player go with that much dead cap, and Mixon was a Top 5 RB this past season, so they probably will keep him for 2022.
I can definitely see them looking to move on for 2023 though, as the cap savings becomes $7.25 mill at that point.

(02-15-2022, 01:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Mixon is set to make $11.42 mill this coming season.
He'll have a dead cap of $8.25 mill if team moves on from him (trade or released).
So it'd just be a savings of just about $3.1 mill.
I don't know of the Bengals letting a player go with that much dead cap, and Mixon was a Top 5 RB this past season, so they probably will keep him for 2022.
I can definitely see them looking to move on for 2023 though, as the cap savings becomes $7.25 mill at that point.

Based on this info, it seems more wise to keep him at the savings won't net enough money to make invest in the OL. Once his deal expires, the Bengals would be wise to draft a young RB rather than sign Mixon to an overpay.

(02-15-2022, 01:44 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Based on this info, it seems more wise to keep him at the savings won't net enough money to make invest in the OL. Once his deal expires, the Bengals would be wise to draft a young RB rather than sign Mixon to an overpay.

I dunno if I'd wait for his contract to expire, as his cap hit keeps going up.

2022 - $11.42 mill cap hit, $8.25 mill dead cap
2023 - $12.85 mill cap hit, $5.5 mill dead cap
2024 - $13.13 mill cap hit, $2.75 mill dead cap

2023 looks reasonable to cut because you get a good amount of savings, but 2024 definitely is a candidate, as it'd be a savings of over $10 mill.

(02-15-2022, 01:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Mixon is set to make $11.42 mill this coming season.
He'll have a dead cap of $8.25 mill if team moves on from him (trade or released).
So it'd just be a savings of just about $3.1 mill.
I don't know of the Bengals letting a player go with that much dead cap, and Mixon was a Top 5 RB this past season, so they probably will keep him for 2022.
I can definitely see them looking to move on for 2023 though, as the cap savings becomes $7.25 mill at that point.

I'd keep him.  Not worth it to move on, and he's still plenty young enough to be productive.  You'd still have to replace him with an early draft pick anyway, and those early picks should be earmarked for OL, DT, and CBs.  No need to add another priority when we have late picks anyway.

I def try to groom a mid round guy to step in should he leave next year, but we're not there yet.  Mixon isn't a guy you cut before Burrow signs his 40 mil per deal and Ja'marr gets his 20 plus.  Right about then is when I'd cut bait and get a younger ball carrier.

(02-15-2022, 11:08 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yes, because on any given play in a game or practice we could instantly be down to one. How many times do we have to suffer with one good receiver before people realize that.

We could trade Boyd for a draft pick & sign a Free agent in place of him. For the record there is no way I'm Releasing him.

As much as I like Boyd I would rather sign a OG/C and trust Duke to find his replacement then watching the Offensive line not do his job.

(02-15-2022, 04:51 PM)J24 Wrote: We could trade Boyd for a draft pick & sign a Free agent in place of him. For the record there is no way I'm Releasing him.

As much as I like Boyd I would rather sign a OG/C and trust Duke to find his replacement then watching the Offensive line not do his job.

You'd have to think SOME team would be willing to offer at least a 4th rounder for him.
While the contract is expensive for a WR3, he could easily be a WR2 on some other team, and that would be worth a 4th rounder or higher.

(02-15-2022, 05:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You'd have to think SOME team would be willing to offer at least a 4th rounder for him.
While the contract is expensive for a WR3, he could easily be a WR2 on some other team, and that would be worth a 4th rounder or higher.

At the very least a 4th + player(I would take a 2nd-3rd comp without and additional peace). His contact is also very cheap for a player of his caliber + under 30.

We had to be bidding against ourselves on that contract. No team would pay him that.