(02-03-2022, 01:47 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I read some good articles on developing NFL Offensive Lineman.
Here is a link to one of them.
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/21/broncos-offensive-line-nfl-draft/

It basically says Off Lineman is one of the most difficult positions to develop. It may take 3 years to reach full development. Our rookies have played a significant amount of snaps this year.  here is where our Offensive Line currently stands.

Isiah Prince (24) 2019 - 6th round (Miami Dolphins) this is his 3rd year. Only played in 4 games with Miami.
Jonah Wiliams (24) 2019 - this technically his second year if you include his injury. He is getting better as the year plays on.
Hakeem Adeniji (24) - 2020 - 6th round pick finishing his second year - Jury still out on him.
Jackson Carmen (22) - 2021 - 2nd round pick in his Rookie Year
D'Ante Smith (23) - 2021 - 4th round pick in his Rookie Year
Trey Hill (22) - 2021 - 6th round pick in his Rookie Year
Fred Johnson (24) - 2019 Undrafted
Trey Hopkins (29) - 2014 Undrafted
Quinton Spain (30) - 2015 Undrafted
Riley Reiff (33) - 2012 - 1st round pick of Detorit Lions

Controlling the NFL salary cap is so crucial to NFL success. The Bengals will gamble and hope the young guys on this list will develop and therefore they will not bring in high priced free agents. At best I bet they only bring in 1 to help shore up this off line and draft another. I can see Fred Johnson not coming back and possibly Riley Reiff and Quinton Spain depending on how much they want. They will not overpay for those guys.
They will sign Jessie Bates, Uzomah and Ogunjobi to team friendly deals.

When you list their draft status / or lack of draft status it really puts into perspective just the pile of sh!t we are working with. I can't believe we made the superbowl with these scrubs. Imagine if we'd been hit harder by the injury bug with the line, woof. 

(02-15-2022, 06:07 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I disagree.  This team is an OL away, from winning it all. You don’t hold back and continue to look 2-3 years down the road.  At some point you need to move your chips in, and it should be before burrow is making 50m/year.

Jonah Williams PFF for 2021 was 77.5   Terron Armstead was 75.9  Spending 20 mill on Armstead is not smart for us. Connor Williams was a 76.1 he is still young I would sign him in a heartbeat.  If i was gonna spend big money on a OT i would go after Orlando Brown and move him back to RT. If we decide to go after a veteran OC i would be after Bozeman from the ravens.

(02-15-2022, 02:18 PM)pulses Wrote: Jonah Williams PFF for 2021 was 77.5   Terron Armstead was 75.9  Spending 20 mill on Armstead is not smart for us. Connor Williams was a 76.1 he is still young I would sign him in a heartbeat.  If i was gonna spend big money on a OT i would go after Orlando Brown and move him back to RT. If we decide to go after a veteran OC i would be after Bozeman from the ravens.

Orlando brown left Baltimore because he wanted to play LT.

If you can get a top tier LT (orlando brown, Duane brown, armstead, TuneSil via trade)and ship Jonah to RT… who cares. This team has a lot of holes on the OL and they are not ones to pay up for IOL traditionally. I’d be happy with a T and one G or C before the draft. If you had 3 foundation pieces, before the draft your OL will likely be above average when all said and done. I’d also consider bringing reiff back on a 1 year 3-5m deal as a “6th man” so an injury doesn’t derail your season.

You protect burrow at all costs, ESPECIALLY with the cap flexibility.

Do you really care how old a player is on the offensive line, if burrow doesn’t get sacked 70 times next year? I’ll take my shot with Duane brown (36) at LT and Jonah at RT before relying on a rookie at RT.

My point in this rant, we don’t have the luxury to be picky.

LT Terron Armstead
LG Andrew Norwell
C Ben Jones
RG Laken Tomlinson
RT Jonah Williams

Let Smith, Hill, and Carman develop behind these guys

LT--Williams
LG- Draft pick- Dylan Parham Memphis
C- Ben Jones
RG--James Daniels
RT- Riely Rieff

This should not cost too much and it will still be a pretty good Offensive line especially in the interior.

(02-15-2022, 02:04 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: For those of you who follow Malik Wright on Twitter, he nailed the Bengals free agency last year. He broke the Apple news before anyone else. He's definitely got some insight into the team.

I say all that because he's mentioned recently that the Bengals will be looking at Orlando Brown from Kansas City. 

I follow Malik but there is no way that KC loses Brown.  They just traded for him last season.

The Chiefs traded their 2021 first-round pick (No. 31 overall), a third-rounder (94), fourth-round pick (136) and a 2022 fifth-round selection in exchange for Brown and a 2021 second-round pick (No. 58) and a 2022 sixth-round pick.

Can you imagine having this guy after only one season?

(02-16-2022, 02:11 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I follow Malik but there is no way that KC loses Brown.  They just traded for him last season.

The Chiefs traded their 2021 first-round pick (No. 31 overall), a third-rounder (94), fourth-round pick (136) and a 2022 fifth-round selection in exchange for Brown and a 2021 second-round pick (No. 58) and a 2022 sixth-round pick.

Can you imagine having this guy after only one season?

He should be the top target for the Bengals. Armstead is the better player but Brown is younger (25 vs 30) and weakens the chemistry of their top foe.  They've seen enough of him between Baltimore and his 3 pro bowls total in just 4 years.  Call him on day one and get it done. 

(02-16-2022, 04:56 PM)phil413 Wrote: He should be the top target for the Bengals. Armstead is the better player but Brown is younger (25 vs 30) and weakens the chemistry of their top foe.  They've seen enough of him between Baltimore and his 3 pro bowls total in just 4 years.  Call him on day one and get it done. 

Did you not read my post?  They gave up a ton for him just last year.  The Browns have a better chance of getting Burrow from us than anyone does getting Brown from KC unless he is just a total malcontent.

(02-15-2022, 09:48 PM)Burreaux Wrote: LT Terron Armstead
LG Andrew Norwell
C Ben Jones
RG Laken Tomlinson
RT Jonah Williams

Let Smith, Hill, and Carman develop behind these guys

Laken Tomlinson is a good fit.  He and Ted Karras.  

    James Daniels-- turns 25 in September.  PFF has him as 5 years/$50mm.   Cutting Waynes-- there is your $10mm for 2022 at least.  This of course assumes that the contract will have the same 2022 cap hit as the average yearly salary. (It doesn't have to of course, they could structure the deal to where his cap hit is $20mm or $5mm for example for 2022)

    At Center, Bengals go with the cheaper option, Ben Jones over Ryan Jensen.  3 years, $21mm.    Cutting Hopkins saves $6mm, so this is basically an upgrade for an extra $1mm cap hit.  

   Connor Williams, LG- turns 25 in May.   PFF has a 3 year deal, but I would think a 4 year deal for $28mm.   (Cap space now down to approximately $50mm.)    

   They may like another guard better than Williams- but we will just put the $7mm cap hold here as there are few LG's on the market and Wiliams was the first guy I thought of.  


   Jonah, Connor, Ben Jones, James Daniels,  Raimann (1st round pick.) 

   Bengals also sign a player like Reiff, or even Reiff to be the primary backup in case of an injury @ T or Guard.    Backup OL are now Reiff/Reiff type player, Trey Hill, Smith, Carman, Adeniji, XXX

   

    $8mm needed for draft picks.  Down to $42mm in cap space.   Backup swing Tackle, $5mm.  Down to $37mm.   Tag Bates, $13mm, down to $24mm.  TE-- $7mm give or take.   Down to $17mm.   Sign a DT-- down to $10mm give or take.  Lets say another CB for about $5mm-- and they also draft a CB in round 2 or 3.    Down to $5mm in cap space which is probably where they want to be.  


  Bengals would only need to draft 1 OL in the 1st.  Rest of picks can be spent primarily on defense to help fill holes left by departing FA's. 


  2 young guards in FA, a solid center with experience.  Some depth on the line with a Reiff type player in case the #1 draft pick doesn't pan out.  Have to hit on a few draft picks to help the starters and depth on defense.   Basically this mock is the 2021 team, but with 3 better IOL.  

 In reality, I expect the Bengals to disappoint, and they just keep Hopkins, sign a RG and a RT.   Then trying to find a LG in the draft, so they can use the $7mm else that was earmarked for a Connor Williams type player elsewhere.  Maybe even re-sign Spain to fill the LG spot as a cheaper option to save a few million.  


  All I know is it is very doable for the Bengals to sign 4 FA OL, keep Bates and still have the money to possibly re-sign Ogunjobi or a similar player, another CB or keep Apple and also to sign Uzomah or a similar TE. 

  The money is there-- and honestly, if they want to push cap hits further down the road, they can go even more balls out the next 2 years by signing players with lower cap hits this year and next.  IE-- Chiefs signed Thuney to a a 5 year $80mm deal, and the cap hit in year 1 was only $4.5mm.   But to do that, also means larger signing bonuses-- and who knows if they will want to shell out a ton of cash in signing bonuses. 

 It is very doable to rebuild the entire OL in 1 offseason.  The Bengals have the cap space to do it. 

Jonah Williams
James Daniels
Bradley Bozeman
Austin Corbett
Daniel Faalele

(02-16-2022, 05:11 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Did you not read my post?  They gave up a ton for him just last year.  The Browns have a better chance of getting Burrow from us than anyone does getting Brown from KC unless he is just a total malcontent.

I did read your post but I had forgot KC can franchise tag him.  If they didn't have that or didn't use it and he hit the open market they can't control where he goes.  It's a moot point though with the tag. 

(02-17-2022, 01:21 AM)phil413 Wrote: I did read your post but I had forgot KC can franchise tag him.  If they didn't have that or didn't use it and he hit the open market they can't control where he goes.  It's a moot point though with the tag. 

They definitely will tag him. The GM all but said so during his end of the season press conference.

(02-17-2022, 01:21 AM)phil413 Wrote: I did read your post but I had forgot KC can franchise tag him.  If they didn't have that or didn't use it and he hit the open market they can't control where he goes.  It's a moot point though with the tag. 

Can you imagine losing a guy just one year later after giving up so much draft capital? I agree tag at minimum, he has a ton of leverage.

KC tags Orlando Brown. Bengals sign Orlando Brown to big contract and give KC #31 this year and # 32 next year. Who says no?

(02-17-2022, 08:36 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: KC tags Orlando Brown. Bengals sign Orlando Brown to big contract and give KC #31 this year and # 32 next year. Who says no?

I do.  As much as I want him, I don't want to arm them with the picks. If rather sign a B grade Tackle and interior OL.  Unless you're saying that agreeing to this deal means we get to pick 32 next year, then by all means yes.

(02-16-2022, 01:17 AM)J24 Wrote: LT--Williams
LG- Draft pick- Dylan Parham Memphis
C- Ben Jones
RG--James Daniels
RT- Riely Rieff

This should not cost too much and it will still be a pretty good Offensive line especially in the interior.

This is similar to what I am thinking although I would replace Reiff with Morgan Moses.  Reiff would cost about 7.5 million a year and Moses would cost about 10 million.  For 2.5 million more you are getting a younger tackle that is better than Reiff.  At left guard I would go after Conner Williams for 6.7 million. He is only 24 years old, had a PFF grade of 76.1 and only gave up one sack for the year.   Lots of potential for an affordable price.

LT   Jonah Williams
LG   Conner Williams
C     Ben Jones
RG   James Daniels
RT   Morgan Moses

edit: Let me also add one the reasons I would like to see Conner Williams and James Daniels brought in is because both are 24 years old and should only get better. If you have two young guards like that for the middle of your line, you could have a foundation set for years.

(02-19-2022, 02:03 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: This is similar to what I am thinking although I would replace Reiff with Morgan Moses.  Reiff would cost about 7.5 million a year and Moses would cost about 10 million.  For 2.5 million more you are getting a younger tackle that is better than Reiff.  At left guard I would go after Conner Williams for 6.7 million. He is only 24 years old, had a PFF grade of 76.1 and only gave up one sack for the year.   Lots of potential for an affordable price.

LT   Jonah Williams
LG   Conner Williams
C     Ben Jones
RG   James Daniels
RT   Morgan Moses

edit:  Let me also add one the reasons I would like to see Conner Williams and James Daniels brought in is because both are 24 years old and should only get better.  If you have two young guards like that for the middle of your line, you could have a foundation set for years.

I really like this. Good job.

(02-18-2022, 01:33 AM)phil413 Wrote: I do.  As much as I want him, I don't want to arm them with the picks. If rather sign a B grade Tackle and interior OL.  Unless you're saying that agreeing to this deal means we get to pick 32 next year, then by all means yes.

I'd be all for it if I knew Jonah would be ok at RT.

But no way KC lets him go. 

(02-19-2022, 02:03 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: This is similar to what I am thinking although I would replace Reiff with Morgan Moses.  Reiff would cost about 7.5 million a year and Moses would cost about 10 million.  For 2.5 million more you are getting a younger tackle that is better than Reiff.  At left guard I would go after Conner Williams for 6.7 million. He is only 24 years old, had a PFF grade of 76.1 and only gave up one sack for the year.   Lots of potential for an affordable price.

LT   Jonah Williams
LG   Conner Williams
C     Ben Jones
RG   James Daniels
RT   Morgan Moses

edit:  Let me also add one the reasons I would like to see Conner Williams and James Daniels brought in is because both are 24 years old and should only get better.  If you have two young guards like that for the middle of your line, you could have a foundation set for years.

This is a great plan, i want it, but there will be compromise.  The FO will have issues signing 4 new starters and giving up on their youth...though I don't have an issue with it. 

That's why I think we will see one of Hopkins, Spain or Rieff.  Landing Daniel's is a big deal, and Jones even for 2 years would bring stability.  Just opinion, but it may come down to Spain over Williams or Moses over Reiff.  I have a suspicion that if they make two big improvements to the interior, they may not get Moses.  There could be a domino effect if Armstong signs early and Brown is tagged.  We aren't the only ones that see Moses as one of the few OTs without significant blemish.  That may push his price up, then Cincy pivots to spending money on the interior, cornerback and then keep Rieff and hope for Smith, Carmen or a rookie to push him.  I like your plan better but I'd be surprised.