What amazes me if people seem to think only our mediocre line had trouble with LA's pass rush. There are some pretty good lines that did not fare much better. That's what happens when you rent a bunch of All Pro pass rushers.

I really hope that you are never a manager/leader of people. Sounds like it would suck to have to work under you.

(02-15-2022, 12:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We also pass A LOT so teams pass rush us A LOT too. A balanced offense is harder to blitz.

Plus, we're not a good screen team. Ie tactics to counter a blitz...we're not skilled at.

Folks want to see more screens, but you're right, we're terrible at them.  

(02-14-2022, 09:46 PM)Joelist Wrote: I think my first order of business would have been to call Zac Taylor, Brian Callahan and Frank Pollack in for all day meetings,

For Pollack I would literally challenge him to explain why he should be retained on staff given the line performance. I'm not going in pre-decided to can him but if the answers are not good ones he's gone right then and there. After that it would be a review of all prospective Free Agents to start the process of identifying targets NOT BASED ON MONEY but based on who they believe will best fit the system and do it well.

For Taylor I would blast him good over doing absolutely nothing to defang the pass rush. One screen? No rollouts? No RPO concepts? Then he gets his extension but also gets removed from play calling and the job search starts for a REAL offensive coordinator.

Then I personally call Burrow and tell him not to worry - the blocking was unacceptable and no matter what it takes the line is getting fixed.

That's Day One.

A tempered down exit meeting with the coaches would be good, but its quite obvious Pollack didnt have the talent to work with at OLine.  I have faith will be addressed bigtime in offseason...even KC style maybe? But all in all this season should be celebrated as a launch point to more to come. We may not get there next yr or the next but I fully expect this team to be a contender for a long time now that the foundation is set.  

(02-14-2022, 10:17 PM)MickMack Wrote: Tell me you know nothing about leadership without saying "I know nothing about leadership."

Isn’t that the truth. What you do is do the job. Evaluate your coaches. Evaluate your own Free Agents and do the math.

(02-14-2022, 09:46 PM)Joelist Wrote: I think my first order of business would have been to call Zac Taylor, Brian Callahan and Frank Pollack in for all day meetings,

For Pollack I would literally challenge him to explain why he should be retained on staff given the line performance. I'm not going in pre-decided to can him but if the answers are not good ones he's gone right then and there. After that it would be a review of all prospective Free Agents to start the process of identifying targets NOT BASED ON MONEY but based on who they believe will best fit the system and do it well.

For Taylor I would blast him good over doing absolutely nothing to defang the pass rush. One screen? No rollouts? No RPO concepts? Then he gets his extension but also gets removed from play calling and the job search starts for a REAL offensive coordinator.

Then I personally call Burrow and tell him not to worry - the blocking was unacceptable and no matter what it takes the line is getting fixed.

That's Day One.

What were your preseason expectations? If it was a Super Bowl appearance you’re a football prognostic savant.

But, if your expectations were less than a Super Bowl appearance, I’d say the coaches exceeded your expectations with the players they were provided. When an employee exceeds expectations that usually means they have done a good job. Generally, it’s not a good idea to jumped down the throat of someone for doing a good job. Especially on Day 1.

Your approach is like gifting your son a full sized truck with a 5.7L Hemi V8 with a mpg of 15/22 and bitching at him for getting 25 mpg.

“Unacceptable, son. Un-f’ing-acceptable. 25 mpg?! Tell me why I shouldn’t take that truck away from you right now for getting better fuel efficiency than expected? Well? I’m waiting.”

(02-14-2022, 10:54 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Please tell us what you’d do on day two.

Two words: prima nocta.

(02-14-2022, 09:46 PM)Joelist Wrote: I think my first order of business would have been to call Zac Taylor, Brian Callahan and Frank Pollack in for all day meetings,

For Pollack I would literally challenge him to explain why he should be retained on staff given the line performance. I'm not going in pre-decided to can him but if the answers are not good ones he's gone right then and there. After that it would be a review of all prospective Free Agents to start the process of identifying targets NOT BASED ON MONEY but based on who they believe will best fit the system and do it well.

For Taylor I would blast him good over doing absolutely nothing to defang the pass rush. One screen? No rollouts? No RPO concepts? Then he gets his extension but also gets removed from play calling and the job search starts for a REAL offensive coordinator.

Then I personally call Burrow and tell him not to worry - the blocking was unacceptable and no matter what it takes the line is getting fixed.

That's Day One.

You give a good sculptor a pile of clay and maybe he can create a masterpiece.

You give a good o line coach a pile of steaming dung and there’s only so much he can do.

Not having Reiff available sucked. We can, and have debated the carman pick ad nauseum. The same with not signing a big time o line free agent last year.

To put this all on pollack is lunacy. Would you prefer we bring back Jim turner??


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(02-14-2022, 11:01 PM)Joelist Wrote: Depends on the outcome of day one. If we come out with a good understanding of things and a preliminary list of target players then day two is calling in the director of scouting and informing them that we will be recruiting at least ten more scouts and need recommendations for candidates. 

I figure day three is for Lou and the defense; map out where we liked what happened and what we need to enhance. The defense is not the big issue hence it not being day one. 

Day four is special teams. 

The idea is at the end of this week of sessions there is a working plan for the offseason which is put into operation at once, as time is of the essence with the short interval until Free Agency starts. 

You should already have that list. That’s something your Director of Pro Player Personnel’s staff should constantly update throughout the year.

The coaches have been busy during the season coaching the Bengals. Not scouting the teams they aren’t playing for potential free agents. That’s one of the current problems.

And for this, you’re fired.

(02-14-2022, 11:16 PM)jj22 Wrote: You guys may be overrating Pollack. And I don't want to hear about the Rams HOF's when we know it was more than just that game. What has he done to not be questioned? There may be a reason he has bounced around so much and no new coach opts to keep him on the staff.

I don't think he's earned the jungle circling the wagon around him. It isn't just Carman that hasn't developed. Who has? None of the young guys.... Why was Fred benched. He was a much better tackle then guard, and held down the LT spot just as good as Williams for stretches when forced into action. He was benched for a player that missed a year after all the reps he got? Why was Carman benched for Adeniji? Cowboys fans said he drove their lambo into a ditch after taking over the line. JET's line never improved and his 1st round pick was benched (can he evaluate talent?). I think there's more questions there then people are ready to discuss.

You want to know why players drafted before January 2021 when Polllack was hired haven’t progressed during the 13 months he’s been on the job?

Yeah y’all are right. I’m a bit more mellow now and realize that the approach I outlined is too rough. I should have chilled out before writing it, my error.

Reflecting this, I would still have the week of meetings, but start by thanking the coaches for overachieving versus expectations. Then deep review by position group to include starting the process of identifying free agent targets with the emphasis being on system fit and with a specific direction not to worry about the cost right now. And the announcement of adding at least ten scouts stands.

I still want the meeting because I want the team ready to move fast in free agency.

(02-14-2022, 11:22 PM)Joelist Wrote: I'm not ready to get rid of him but I would want him to stand up there and explain exactly what his philosophy is, why these players seem unable to execute it and if they can't then what CAN they execute? If he can't answer these then there is a bigger problem. 

I'm a little less down and angry over the game but I know how freaking difficult getting to the SB is and they were there and THEY BLEW IT. It just feels like chapter three of the Bengals rip out the hearts of their longest suffering fans. 

Do you? That’s where you should begin Day 1. Maybe congratulate them for achieving something you know is so freaking difficult. Probably want to give the coaches a 1-2 week vacay because studies indicate they increase productivity.

You should have came into this meeting with a plan to provide them with leadership. Instead of asking them for free agent names, knowing they don’t have the time to scout during the season, you should have provided them with a list of potential free agents for them to review. In your hypothetical scenario, you just indicated to the coaches you don’t hold the pro player department accountable because you haven’t developed free agent targets and you lack initiative, planning, supervision, execution, leadership, and you don’t hold yourself accountable. The only thing you’ll get out of Day 1 is disgruntled, resentful coaches who are just as disappointed in a Super Bowl loss as you.

(02-15-2022, 12:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We also pass A LOT so teams pass rush us A LOT too. A balanced offense is harder to blitz.

Plus, we're not a good screen team. Ie tactics to counter a blitz...we're not skilled at.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Five wide with an empty backfield and no one in motion with back ups at RG and RT on first down indicates a pass?

(02-15-2022, 12:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You want to improve our coaching?

Give them the players they need to execute their schemes.

You all would be amazed how much better Zac would be as a play caller with a couple of upgrades on the O-line.

This, and more time for your QB equals more of the playbook you can utilize. I can't recall many dropbacks over three steps. 

(02-15-2022, 01:04 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The line was still bad even with Reiff.  This is an Oline that gave up 50+ sacks in regular season even with Reiff playing most of it. They didnt just get bad when Reiff went out, they have been bad all year.  I think the issue is many of our fans did not realize how bad the O-line was because they bought into these claims that the front office addressed the O-line issues.  A few weeks ago I even had a felllow poster debate with me that Burrow was responsible for 40+ sacks because he held on to the ball too long, that the O line wasnt that bad.  For whatever reason some of our fans havent been able to see how bad this line really is when many of us have been pointing out the need to improve it for years.  The line is bad and has been for a long time.

Yep, the line is bad. It's also true that Joe did cause a few holding the ball too long. Not 40+, to be certain. That's a ridiculous number. 

(02-15-2022, 01:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You want to know why players drafted before January 2021 when Polllack was hired haven’t progressed during the 13 months he’s been on the job?

Sure.

Typically someone in the room progresses. Someone in a full season under the Assistant coaches tutelage. 

The DL improved in 13 months under a new coach.
Our WR improved in 13 months under a new coach.
Eli Apple improved under a new CB coach, and last year Alexander had a great year under the first year of the CB coach as did Phillips.
Turner got the best out of Fred freakin Johnson in his first year as an assistant coach.
In Gorden's first year, he got a good year out of Pratt and got the young Lb's up to speed.

(02-15-2022, 01:18 AM)Science Friction Wrote: I get the feeling that "Isaac Curtis" would say the reason there is no cure for cancer is because the drug companies have conspired together to make sure that cure never reaches the market.

I'm still waiting on a cure for this lifetime of Bengals' heartbreak.

Can’t tell if this is sarcasm.

(02-14-2022, 09:49 PM)Joelist Wrote: Why? Do you EVER want a championship? The ONLY way to get there is to lower the boom and not settle for crap. 

If you were in charge of the Bengals I'd be a steelers fan suddenly.. 

(02-15-2022, 02:29 PM)jj22 Wrote: Sure.

Typically someone in the room progresses. Someone in a full season under the Assistant coaches tutelage. 

The DL improved in 13 months under a new coach.
Our WR improved in 13 months under a new coach.
Eli Apple improved under a new CB coach, and last year Alexander had a great year under the first year of the CB coach as did Phillips.

Carman began the season recovering from back surgery and ended the season dealing with back pain. How much do you expect a rookie to develop in 10 months while transitioning to a new position when limited by injury?

(02-15-2022, 02:21 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, the line is bad. It's also true that Joe did cause a few holding the ball too long. Not 40+, to be certain. That's a ridiculous number. 

It wasn't 40+ that's for sure. I think in the regular season they had 10 sacks attributed to backs and TEs and Burrow a like number.