(02-15-2022, 05:01 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I’d like to keep Bates, but not until we spend money, real money, on Tier 1 O Line FA. If there’s money after that, then Bates is the next one to get a deal.

But we need 3 O Line. We need another edge rusher, and a CB. That’s bare minimum. I also wouldn’t be upset with a mid-late round RB, and another WR (pick 4-7).

Dont forget Ossai is coming back.

(02-15-2022, 05:01 PM)J24 Wrote: Well Bell has drastically improved while he has been here(particularly in coverage). If he was on the Open Market this year he is getting over 10 Million Per Year.

Not sure bout that, SS's are not usually paid on FS level.

Tough choice on Bates.

I lean towards signing him, but CBS is predicting something similar to Budda Baker's contract (4 years, $59 million). They have the same agent. So keep that in mind.

He's been inconsistent from year to year, or at times from one stretch of games to another. Varying between an average safety and a top 3 safety.

Normally, I'd say tag him for $13 million and make him prove it again, but he said the lack of a contract affected his play last season. So would he play at a high level on the tag? Questionable.

If you invest big money in him, which Bates are you getting?

(02-15-2022, 05:01 PM)J24 Wrote: Well Bell has drastically improved while he has been here(particularly in coverage). If he was on the Open Market this year he is getting over 10 Million Per Year.

He just may.
And Bates would have probably had a crazy market if he was hitting FA last year.
He was truly elite all season.
This past year though, he definitely had declined for some stretches, which could end up affecting what he gets.

(02-15-2022, 05:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Tough choice on Bates.

I lean towards signing him, but CBS is predicting something similar to Budda Baker's contract (4 years, $59 million). They have the same agent. So keep that in mind.

He's been inconsistent from year to year, or at times from one stretch of games to another. Varying between an average safety and a top 3 safety.

Normally, I'd say tag him for $13 million and make him prove it again, but he said the lack of a contract affected his play last season. So would he play at a high level on the tag? Questionable.

If you invest big money in him, which Bates are you getting?

If we could tag him and trade him for a 1st, that would be cool. Then use the cap space on line. Draft a safety.

That said, this doesn't seem to happen much.

(02-15-2022, 05:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He just may.
And Bates would have probably had a crazy market if he was hitting FA last year.
He was truly elite all season.
This past year though, he definitely had declined for some stretches, which could end up affecting what he gets.

When you win...the value of your players goes up.

(02-15-2022, 06:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: If we could tag him and trade him for a 1st, that would be cool. Then use the cap space on line. Draft a safety.

That said, this doesn't seem to happen much.

Agreed. As it stands, I guess I'd sign him. Who else do we need to sign anytime soon? May as well lock him up. I'd structure the contract so that he could be cut in 2 years, though.

Just as a safeguard in case average Bates shows up more than elite Bates.

(02-15-2022, 07:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agreed. As it stands, I guess I'd sign him. Who else do we need to sign anytime soon? May as well lock him up. I'd structure the contract so that he could be cut in 2 years, though.

Just as a safeguard in case average Bates shows up more than elite Bates.

I saw some mocks that have us drafting his replacement, but idk. I'm keen on drafting a pass rusher at 31 or a TE that can run or a Center.

(02-15-2022, 06:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: If we could tag him and trade him for a 1st, that would be cool. Then use the cap space on line. Draft a safety.

That said, this doesn't seem to happen much.

After the Playoff run he had you might  get two first RD picks for him similar to Jamal Adams.

I find it funny though that people are ok with him leaving after the post season the defense had. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Defenses play went up a couple of notches when Bates play went up. Dude is a modern day Earl Thomas.

(02-15-2022, 07:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I saw some mocks that have us drafting his replacement, but idk. I'm keen on drafting a pass rusher at 31 or a TE that can run or a Center.

You know me, I want that #31 pick to fill a need somewhere on the o-line. Attack it via FA and the draft.

Not that I don't want a TE, but hopefully we could find one later on. Same with edge depth.

(02-15-2022, 08:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You know me, I want that #31 pick to fill a need somewhere on the o-line. Attack it via FA and the draft.

Not that I don't want a TE, but hopefully we could find one later on. Same with edge depth.

Shoot I want a proven T, G,and a C in FA and then go BPA in draft.  

(02-15-2022, 07:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I saw some mocks that have us drafting his replacement, but idk. I'm keen on drafting a pass rusher at 31 or a TE that can run or a Center.

Why use our best pick on a pass rusher with H&H and Ossai coming back? 

If we loaded up on oline in FA I'd love to pair Joe with Trey McBride at 31, equivalent to Brady-Gronk.

(02-15-2022, 07:46 PM)J24 Wrote: After the Playoff run he had you might  get two first RD picks for him similar to Jamal Adams.

I find it funny though that people are ok with him leaving after the post season the defense had. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Defenses play went up a couple of notches when Bates play went up. Dude is a modern day Earl Thomas.

Easy killer, Jessie has one 2nd Team All Pro award, ET was an all decade guy.  Bates may get there but he had a very average season, excellent playoffs though.

(02-15-2022, 09:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Easy killer, Jessie has one 2nd Team All Pro award, ET was an all decade guy.  Bates may get there but he had a very average season, excellent playoffs though.

How many guys have 2nd Team all pros on this team? His playoff performance helped propel a Defense to excellence in the playoffs. Dude is 100% legit.

Tag Bates fir a season and ask him to do that level if play next year before handing him a lot of money.

(02-15-2022, 07:46 PM)J24 Wrote: After the Playoff run he had you might  get two first RD picks for him similar to Jamal Adams.

I find it funny though that people are ok with him leaving after the post season the defense had. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Defenses play went up a couple of notches when Bates play went up. Dude is a modern day Earl Thomas.

At times he's Earl Thomas. For large chunks of the season he's average at best. I think people are scared to overpay and get the average Bates.

But yes...when he's on...he's the best ballhawk in the game and I'd love to keep him.

He does miss tackles too sometimes and did miss one on Kupp.

But, we need offensive lineman more. Maybe we waive Wayne's and give Bates that money.

(02-15-2022, 09:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Easy killer, Jessie has one 2nd Team All Pro award, ET was an all decade guy.  Bates may get there but he had a very average season, excellent playoffs though.

This. I see a lot of posters judge players based off of splash plays or good games. Like wow Carman had a great game, he leveled that guy.

Got to look at the big picture.

(02-15-2022, 09:44 PM)J24 Wrote: How many guys have 2nd Team all pros on this team? His playoff performance helped propel a Defense to excellence in the playoffs. Dude is 100% legit.

Its not that I dislike him, it is his position and the $$$.

FS is not as low a priority on defense as slot as in our offense, but Im not sure how high it truly it is.

Tier 1 priorities to me on defense (whatever order):
DE
DT
NG
CB

Tier 2 priorities to me on defense (whatever order):
MLB, OLB, NCB, SS, FS 


My point is dont overspend on lower priority positions. If you value FS super high then that validates your point.

(02-15-2022, 09:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: At times he's Earl Thomas. For large chunks of the season he's average at best. I think people are scared to overpay and get the average Bates.

But yes...when he's on...he's the best ballhawk in the game and I'd love to keep him.

He does miss tackles too sometimes and did miss one on Kupp.

But, we need offensive lineman more. Maybe we waive Wayne's and give Bates that money.

We need him and the offensive line. It's not a one or the other situation. If it wasn't for the defenses performance this post season we don't make the Super Bowl.
Trading away the Defense for a good Offensive line won't win us anything either. Both need to be priorities.

Bates was a top 10 Safety as a rookie, struggled a bit in 2019 then returned to form during the last half of the season, #1 safety in 2020, and had a bad season this regular season but then again performed like a superstar in the post season. Dude has proved his worth pay the man!

(02-15-2022, 10:05 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Its not that I dislike him, it is his position and the $$$.

FS is not as low a priority on defense as slot as in our offense, but Im not sure how high it truly it is.

Tier 1 priorities to me on defense (whatever order):
DE
DT
NG
CB

Tier 2 priorities to me on defense (whatever order):
MLB, OLB, NCB, SS, FS 


My point is dont overspend on lower priority positions. If you value FS super high then that validates your point.

How is safety a low priority position? Nearly every team that has won a Superbowl since 2000  has had a Pro Bowl caliber/HOF Caliber Safety.
00- Rod Woodson
01- Lawyer Malloy 
02- John Lynch
03- Rodney Harrison
04-Rodney Harrison
05- Troy Polamalu
06- Bob Sanders
07- know one
08- Troy Polamalu
09- Darren Sharper
10- Nick Collins
11- Know one
12- ED Reed
13- Earl Thomas/ Kam Chancellor
14-Devin McCorty
15- Know one
16.)Devin McCorty
17.) Malcolm Jenkins
18.)Devin McCorty
19.) Tyran Mathieu
20.) Antoine Winfield
21.) Know one
Only 4 Winners didn't have a top notch Safety on there team and all of those teams that didn't had an amazing pass rush.

Secondly we're a Single High team. So if anything having a deep Safety like Bates is more of a necessity.