PAIN

And Tyler Boyd was held. Actually held not like the bullshit call on Logan.

(02-14-2022, 08:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chase straight up won us at least a 3-4 games this season (MIN, BAL, KC). 

This type of thinking is why I'll probably never "embrace the kid."

Burrow is elite. Absolutely a top 5 QB in the league. Does having Chase help him early on due to their chemistry? I'm sure but how long did it take for him to get into a groove with Higgins last year? One game, two? Burrow wins games, his decision making and his not getting rattled. I think he'd win with almost any WR you put out there if he had protection.

Elite QB's make average WR's great like Brady did for years in New England, and good WR's, elite like say Rodgers and Adams.

If you really want to understand the impact of a QB on WR play and why it is more about the QB then any WR look no further then the team that just beat the Bengals in the Super Bowl.

Kupp with Goff = Best year was 94 rec 1161 yards, 10 TDs

Kupp with Stafford - One year only 145 rec 1947 yards, 16 TDs

Is Chase good, sure. Is he some mythical creature like a lot of fans make him out to be? No. ****, A.J. Green is better in my opinion, look at A.J.'s numbers he put up with the handicap of Dalton, rookie A.J. with Burrow's talent would have been unreal. All the worship of him and the "he won those games" comments just make me like him less and less. I like team guys, Burrow, Shooter, Bell, Awuzie, I'm not into people that start converstations with "I'm going to break all the records" or when asked about if he should be rookie of the year " “I better be”.

If he made those comments and was on the Steelers you and everyone else on this board would call him Antonio Brown Junior...but since he is in stripes, he could pull a Henry Ruggs and people would still be all in on him.




As for OL...they can't wait till pick 31. They have to go out in FA and get it right.

I don't know if I would have called this play on 4th and 1 as it took a while to develop and the Rams were getting pressure so quickly.

Maybe a TE screen or something like that.

(02-14-2022, 08:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: Sewell wasn’t even the best rookie offensive lineman, arguably not too 3. If you want to argue we screwed up not taking Humphrey or Smith I’m here for it and think that could have been enough to win the SB. Without Chase every defense plays us differently and frankly Burrow isn’t as good. Chase is a top 10 WR in the league right now, no one thinks Sewell is a top 10 or even 20 tackle.

Taking Chase off this team is in line with taking Adams, Hill or Kupp off their teams.

Except for the PFF top 100 players lol.

I mean, it is listed on another thread on this very board. And to be that highly rated after the shit show of the start to the season, is kind of amazing.

Again, this doesn't matter that choice was made but to say the team doesn't win without Chase is just flat out wrong and an insult to Burrow.

Brady won by making average WRs look like All-Pro, if you really believe that the team doesn't win without Chase then you are selling Burrow really short. He is elite and elite QBs can elevate the play of any skill guy.

(02-16-2022, 05:14 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Except for the PFF top 100 players lol.

I mean, it is listed on another thread on this very board. And to be that highly rated after the shit show of the start to the season, is kind of amazing.

Again, this doesn't matter that choice was made but to say the team doesn't win without Chase is just flat out wrong and an insult to Burrow.

Brady won by making average WRs look like All-Pro, if you really believe that the team doesn't win without Chase then you are selling Burrow really short. He is elite and elite QBs can elevate the play of any skill guy.

I am not going to comment on PFF other than saying, once you know how the sausage is made you don't like to eat sausage so much anymore. He was okay, but not the guy people acted like he'd be. Some is because he went to the right side, which he would have done here as well, other is because he was a rookie and rookies struggle.

No insult to Burrow, however Chase elevated Burrow more than Burrow elevated Chase. He also benefitted a lot from single high safeties rolling to Chase which makes reading the rest of the field much easier. Again, Burrow is great and all but Chase completely changed how teams approach us.

(02-16-2022, 04:56 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This type of thinking is why I'll probably never "embrace the kid."

Burrow is elite. Absolutely a top 5 QB in the league. Does having Chase help him early on due to their chemistry? I'm sure but how long did it take for him to get into a groove with Higgins last year? One game, two? Burrow wins games, his decision making and his not getting rattled. I think he'd win with almost any WR you put out there if he had protection.

Elite QB's make average WR's great like Brady did for years in New England, and good WR's, elite like say Rodgers and Adams.

If you really want to understand the impact of a QB on WR play and why it is more about the QB then any WR look no further then the team that just beat the Bengals in the Super Bowl.

Kupp with Goff = Best year was 94 rec 1161 yards, 10 TDs

Kupp with Stafford - One year only 145 rec 1947 yards, 16 TDs

Is Chase good, sure. Is he some mythical creature like a lot of fans make him out to be? No. ****, A.J. Green is better in my opinion, look at A.J.'s numbers he put up with the handicap of Dalton, rookie A.J. with Burrow's talent would have been unreal. All the worship of him and the "he won those games" comments just make me like him less and less. I like team guys, Burrow, Shooter, Bell, Awuzie, I'm not into people that start converstations with "I'm going to break all the records" or when asked about if he should be rookie of the year " “I better be”.

If he made those comments and was on the Steelers you and everyone else on this board would call him Antonio Brown Junior...but since he is in stripes, he could pull a Henry Ruggs and people would still be all in on him.




As for OL...they can't wait till pick 31. They have to go out in FA and get it right.

AJ Green isn't even half as good as Ja'maar... Everyone forgets he's a 21 year old rookie...

(02-16-2022, 05:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: I am not going to comment on PFF other than saying, once you know how the sausage is made you don't like to eat sausage so much anymore. He was okay, but not the guy people acted like he'd be. Some is because he went to the right side, which he would have done here as well, other is because he was a rookie and rookies struggle.

No insult to Burrow, however Chase elevated Burrow more than Burrow elevated Chase. He also benefitted a lot from single high safeties rolling to Chase which makes reading the rest of the field much easier. Again, Burrow is great and all but Chase completely changed how teams approach us.

Really kind of a no-brainer. Chase had an historic year, breaking all kinds of NFL and Bengals records, and the Bengals went from 4 wins to the Super Bowl. Those who felt the team would have been in the Super Bowl with Sewell have nothing substantial to base their comments on, just pure speculation. 

(02-16-2022, 05:14 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Except for the PFF top 100 players lol.

I mean, it is listed on another thread on this very board. And to be that highly rated after the shit show of the start to the season, is kind of amazing.

Again, this doesn't matter that choice was made but to say the team doesn't win without Chase is just flat out wrong and an insult to Burrow.

Brady won by making average WRs look like All-Pro, if you really believe that the team doesn't win without Chase then you are selling Burrow really short. He is elite and elite QBs can elevate the play of any skill guy.

Chase is a rare talent. He.is so.good, he took a year off from football and on week 1 wasted no time 
Smoking the Vikings on a 50 yd bomb.
Burrows deep ball % made a mercurial leap with 
Chase in the lineup. 

Chase affected the whole way defenses played the Bengals. Teams tried zone, man , combo of both
And Burrow still got his money off...why cause
Defenses had issues defending Chase.

And yes Chase is better than A.J.2 different kinds of WRs, but Chase is better by miles.
Chase rose to the occasion vs top shelf AFC teams
All year. And in the playoffs to beat Chiefs, Jamar
Simply.took over when the Bengals needed the most.
A.J was no.show in the playoffs. 
Oh BTW, Jamar Chase made Jalen Ramsey look like 
A junior varsity CB.
Jalen Ramsey made A.J look like a JV WR. 

(02-16-2022, 05:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: I am not going to comment on PFF other than saying, once you know how the sausage is made you don't like to eat sausage so much anymore. He was okay, but not the guy people acted like he'd be. Some is because he went to the right side, which he would have done here as well, other is because he was a rookie and rookies struggle.

No insult to Burrow, however Chase elevated Burrow more than Burrow elevated Chase. He also benefitted a lot from single high safeties rolling to Chase which makes reading the rest of the field much easier. Again, Burrow is great and all but Chase completely changed how teams approach us.

Sewell played better in the 2nd half of the season, better than anyone of our OL. The dude is 21 years old!!! Soon to be an all-pro(or at least pro-bowl level).

(02-16-2022, 05:50 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Sewell played better in the 2nd half of the season better than anyone of our OL.  The dude is 21 years old!!!  Soon to be an all-pro(or at least pro-bowl level).

Well our O line was basically replacement level across the board so that is saying nothing. We will see, I think he still got a lot of excuses made for him because of who he was when assigning responsibility for pressures and sacks at times.

As an FYI, before this really starts devolving...I was actually on the Team Pitts train haha.

(02-16-2022, 05:14 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Brady won by making average WRs look like All-Pro.

Brady also won 7 SBs by constantly having an elite defense...

2001: 6th scoring defense
2003: 1st scoring defense
2004: 2nd scoring defense 
2014: 8th scoring defense
2016: 1st scoring defense
2018: 7th scoring defense

2020: 8th scoring defense

Not discounting Brady, but to pretend you just throw a bunch of scrubs on a team with Brady and he wins isn't genuine.

(02-16-2022, 05:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: No insult to Burrow, however Chase elevated Burrow more than Burrow elevated Chase. He also benefitted a lot from single high safeties rolling to Chase which makes reading the rest of the field much easier. Again, Burrow is great and all but Chase completely changed how teams approach us.

I kind of lean towards this a little bit, too. If only because I remember how awful Burrow was throwing the deep ball without Chase two years ago, and how many times Chase was under or over thrown for wide open guaranteed TDs on top of the ones he did get or make adjustments to get.

Burrow is still really good and I have no problem envisioning him leading the Bengals for two decades of success (if kept off the freaking ground), but the offense this year lived and died with Chase making big plays involved him absolutely scorching DBs to be wide open, shaking off DB tackles, or absolutely bullying DBs with blocks.

(02-16-2022, 05:41 PM)Tony Wrote: AJ Green isn't even half as good as Ja'maar... Everyone forgets he's a 21 year old rookie...

I don't think I would go anywhere near as far as "isn't half as good as".. but it is a good point that Chase is 2 years younger than AJ Green was his rookie year. We still haven't seen peak Chase yet.

That was the crazy thing about the top 3 guys in the draft. Pitts, Chase, Sewell... all basically guaranteed hits and all just in their age 21 season as rookies, so nowhere near a finished player despite all being very very very good already.

(02-16-2022, 05:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know if I would have called this play on 4th and 1 as it took a while to develop and the Rams were getting pressure so quickly.

Maybe a TE screen or something like that.

The play call was to get the ball to Higgins, Boyd, or Uzomah. Higgins and Boyd were both held. If you were inclined to rewatch the play you’d see Burrow had time to get one of them the ball but both had defenders with both arms holding them. If I’d change anything I would have had Perine running an inside route. Definitely would have gone for the first with Mixon on 2nd and 1. I’d only throw downfield on 2nd down had we been in fg range.

(02-16-2022, 06:36 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: The play call was to get the ball to Higgins, Boyd, or Uzomah. Higgins and Boyd were both held. If you were inclined to rewatch the play you’d see Burrow had time to get one of them the ball but both had defenders with both arms holding them. If I’d change anything I would have had Perine running an inside route. Definitely would have gone for the first with Mixon on 2nd and 1. I’d only throw downfield on 2nd down had we been in fg range.

I had no problem with Mixon on the bench (like most 3 downs). Give Mixon the ball there and the narrative would have been ZT is an idiot, a billion people know who is getting the ball.

Instead, the frustrating thing for me was not running to the left side (our strength). That’s the head scratcher.

(02-16-2022, 04:56 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This type of thinking is why I'll probably never "embrace the kid."

Burrow is elite. Absolutely a top 5 QB in the league. Does having Chase help him early on due to their chemistry? I'm sure but how long did it take for him to get into a groove with Higgins last year? One game, two? Burrow wins games, his decision making and his not getting rattled. I think he'd win with almost any WR you put out there if he had protection.

Elite QB's make average WR's great like Brady did for years in New England, and good WR's, elite like say Rodgers and Adams.

If you really want to understand the impact of a QB on WR play and why it is more about the QB then any WR look no further then the team that just beat the Bengals in the Super Bowl.

Kupp with Goff = Best year was 94 rec 1161 yards, 10 TDs

Kupp with Stafford - One year only 145 rec 1947 yards, 16 TDs

Is Chase good, sure. Is he some mythical creature like a lot of fans make him out to be? No. ****, A.J. Green is better in my opinion, look at A.J.'s numbers he put up with the handicap of Dalton, rookie A.J. with Burrow's talent would have been unreal. All the worship of him and the "he won those games" comments just make me like him less and less. I like team guys, Burrow, Shooter, Bell, Awuzie, I'm not into people that start converstations with "I'm going to break all the records" or when asked about if he should be rookie of the year " “I better be”.

If he made those comments and was on the Steelers you and everyone else on this board would call him Antonio Brown Junior...but since he is in stripes, he could pull a Henry Ruggs and people would still be all in on him.




As for OL...they can't wait till pick 31. They have to go out in FA and get it right.

Truly sad and pathetic post. Letting a bunch of rando’s on a message board keep you from embracing a player as special as Ja’Marr Chase is absolutely insane. Your loss. I can’t imagine not enjoying watching him play.

And holding it against him that he said he’d break records or that he should be OROY is also super petty. He backed up the records statement, and he was 100% right that he should win that award. He had the best rookie WR season of all time. Why should he give some kind of “ah shucks” bs answer to questions about should he win it? **** that. Give me the alpha dog that knows he’s the best and backs it up. Burrow is the same way.

As for it being the QB - you will not find a bigger Joe Burrow fan that me, but giving him all the credit for his WR’s success is ridiculous. He literally couldn’t connect on a deep ball to save his life last season. Chase completely unlocked that part of our offense. Chase also scored several TD’s that had absolutely nothing to do with Burrow’s throws (82 yarder against Baltimore, the one he outran 7 Chiefs players from the middle of the field, etc).

(02-16-2022, 11:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Truly sad and pathetic post. Letting a bunch of rando’s on a message board keep you from embracing a player as special as Ja’Marr Chase is absolutely insane. Your loss. I can’t imagine not enjoying watching him play.

And holding it against him that he said he’d break records or that he should be OROY is also super petty. He backed up the records statement, and he was 100% right that he should win that award. He had the best rookie WR season of all time. Why should he give some kind of “ah shucks” bs answer to questions about should he win it? **** that. Give me the alpha dog that knows he’s the best and backs it up. Burrow is the same way.

As for it being the QB - you will not find a bigger Joe Burrow fan that me, but giving him all the credit for his WR’s success is ridiculous. He literally couldn’t connect on a deep ball to save his life last season. Chase completely unlocked that part of our offense. Chase also scored several TD’s that had absolutely nothing to do with Burrow’s throws (82 yarder against Baltimore, the one he outran 7 Chiefs players from the middle of the field, etc).

Agree. Chase is a gamebreaker. There were games where our offense struggled...Burrow threw a 50/50 ball to Chase and he made a play and scored a TD. That changed the offense.

Without Chase, and with a bad line...even with Sewell bad we would have struggled to score and won less games. No doubt. We finish with maybe 7 wins without Chase.

Chase is all time.

Burrow never saw, or looked chase way.

Fix the OL, and run it back.

(02-16-2022, 05:41 PM)Tony Wrote: AJ Green isn't even half as good as Ja'maar... Everyone forgets he's a 21 year old rookie...

I love AJ. Top 5 favorite player for me. AJ completely disappeared in big games and the playoffs for years. Chase otoh plays his best under the brightest lights. 266 yards and 3 TD’s against KC to clinch the division. Rookie record for yards in the playoffs, etc.

The move would have been to take Chase...and trade back into the 1st Round for Darrishaw.