We have to live with these SB nightmares; Mixon not running the ball in short yardage and not ONE screen play vs the worst team in the league in defending screen plays (SF beat them 2 out of 3 with screens and had an 80 yd TD in the loss)

That said the predictability needs to lessen and the creativity needs to increase. Taylor was hired directly from McVay’s staff, but he is not educated from the Shanahan/McVay tree. Instead, the Bengals run a modern version of the West Coast offense. All the schematic bells and whistles that are associated with the McVay/Shanahan offense are not found in this offense. For example, their motion/shift rate and bunch/stack receiver rate are below the league average, two places where the Rams and San Francisco 49ers, are at the top.

To start, the marriage between run and pass looks is almost nonexistent. When the Bengals go in shotgun, they throw the ball. When they go under center, they run the football. When they bring heavy personnel on the field, they exclusively run the football. When they bring lighter personnel on the field, they throw the football. This from PFF.



This creates a silo effect on the offense where defenses can get a beat on whether a run or a pass is coming based on simple tendency tells. The link between runs and passes — play-action passes — is also nonexistent. The Bengals called a play-action pass on just 19.7% of their pass plays, the fourth-lowest rate in the league.

Getting granular within their play-action pass menu, they have a hard time creating easy throws for their quarterback with their called concepts. The team struggled to control the space directly behind linebackers between the numbers. At face value, it would seem calling play-action concepts that attack the position group with conflicting interests in defending the run and pass would be a team's goal. Even with the downhill nature of the run scheme that the offense showed defenses before pulling the ball on the fake — 50% of their play actions were vertical, 50% horizontal — they still didn’t attack the space enough.

The dropback passing game also lacked a diversity of concepts and the marriage between two different route concepts. The team finished at the bottom in the regular season in volume of pass plays with a double move even though they led the league in yards on those plays. It’s a somewhat reductive way of looking at this aspect of dropback passing but it does illuminate the Bengals issues to an extent. Oline plays a huge aspect in this as well.

I hope Zac improves and unlike many others I want him to still call plays with Callahan's assistance because as long as we are successful we will lose multiple OC's, the continuity between Zac and Joe will remain (assuming it improves).

Yes. Very predictable. And that let's teams pass rush accordingly.

I kind of fear that the success this year will lead to Zac being the play caller well into the future and due to our personnel...we'll be good but not great.

A better OL will improve playcalling. Also, ZT seems to be smart and constantly learning from his own mistakes.

(02-20-2022, 05:45 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: A better OL will improve playcalling.  Also, ZT seems to be smart and constantly learning from his own mistakes.

That is a very fair comment.  Hopefully we will see a huge improvement in both this coming season.

(02-20-2022, 05:45 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: A better OL will improve playcalling.  Also, ZT seems to be smart and constantly learning from his own mistakes.

On the better oline...yes. But shouldn't need to have a Pro Bowl player at every position to have a great offense.

We are loaded at qb, wr, and rb. There are coaches out there that could work wonders with this offense.

I also think that it can be said that predictable playcalling, exposes a mediocre oline.

That's essentially what the op is saying.

(02-20-2022, 05:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I also think that it can be said that predictable playcalling, exposes a mediocre oline.

That's essentially what the op is saying.

Nice rebuttal.  Better Olines do make for better playcallers for sure. But better playcallers can cover more deficiencies.

You guys are dead on.

How did Goff do in the super bowl. Yes Taylor was just the quarterbacks coach but Goff was completely confused and disoriented to what the adjustments the patriots made

One would think that would have scared the crap out of him about having a team prepared and having different sets for different possibilities. But what happened to Goff was basically repeated in the second half of the super bowl

I’ve said before he is an average iq guy. Going back to days in Miami. Poor decisions and failure at in game adjustments proves that. They will win a lot of games maybe 1 Super Bowl if they get lucky. But burrow will not be an all time great with this head coach. It’s sad because the has that potential to be that good.

Also remember McVay has a photographic memory and I'm guessing Taylor does not. The former people usually seem/are insanely smart. One thing I've found curious is Burrow can't seem to remember certain plays in the games he just played, it might be political talk in press conferences, since he doesn't take notes/etc. I assume everything's in his head. He doesn't have to remember every single play but it seems like that's what separates GOATs. It also seems to show on the field that he learns from the past, but maybe he doesn't care/have the ability to remember the unnecessary.

First off all the coaches have a hand in the play calls. I know for fact they split up situational areas. One has the Redzone. One has short yardage on third/fourth down. One has 2nd or 3rd and long etc. So they aren’t all talking in the head sets. Now the play sheets are already ready for them from developing in game week. Taylor has changed the offense to suit what Joe likes. Joe likes 5WR sets. He’s said so. That doesn’t work well for blocking or the run game or RPO’s.

It’ll be vastly better with a better run game in 2022.

In the SB...the oline did ok in the 1st half. In the 2nd half, the Rams defense made an adjustment that the Bengals coaches never figured out.

(02-20-2022, 06:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: First off all the coaches have a hand in the play calls. I know for fact they split up situational areas. One has the Redzone. One has short yardage on third/fourth down. One has 2nd or 3rd and long etc. So they aren’t all talking in the head sets. Now the play sheets are already ready for them from developing in game week. Taylor has changed the offense to suit what Joe likes. Joe likes 5WR sets. He’s said so. That doesn’t work well for blocking or the run game or RPO’s.

It’ll be vastly better with a better run game in 2022.

Mixon averaged 4.8 ypc in the SB. When the Rams overloaded the right side...why we didn't start running more and doing screens to the rb and te...I'll never know.

Evidently we are not even running half our playbook due to Burrow having ZERO time..... would give Taylor 1 more year with a good O-Line before I'd replace him not as HC but as the playcaller.

(02-20-2022, 06:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Mixon averaged 4.8 ypc in the SB. When the Rams overloaded the right side...why we didn't start running more and doing screens to the rb and te...I'll never know.

Could be the never ending faith in Joe Burrow even with the sack numbers.. There were also some runs when JoeM was stonewalled completely. Half dozen of one, six of the other.. Regardless of what any one of us thinks, Zac will be the HC next year as well and if they still win out he'll be here the following year and the year after and the year after until they no longer win.. Even then he still might stick around.. 

(02-20-2022, 06:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Mixon averaged 4.8 ypc in the SB. When the Rams overloaded the right side...why we didn't start running more and doing screens to the rb and te...I'll never know.

The second half the players made a lot of mistakes. Wrong patterns. Burrow on his protection. Burrow on his decisions. Taylor on his play calls. The OL did not block as well. I’m not going to use the SB as some measuring stick for the season. I think our inexperience showed up with the coaches and players and might be attributed to the pressure. But let’s face it their players Stafford, Donald, and Kupp made more plays. With the criticism of Taylor and his play calling McVay wonder boy got what 4 more? It’s nit picking.

For the season 6th in yards per point and 8th points per play. That’s nice efficiency with that OL

(02-20-2022, 05:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: On the better oline...yes. But shouldn't need to have a Pro Bowl player at every position to have a great offense.

We are loaded at qb, wr, and rb. There are coaches out there that could work wonders with this offense.

I doubt that any coach could work wonders with this offensive line. He got us to within 2 minutes of winning he Super Bowl.

Where did all these other great coaches end up? Reid is considered a great coach. He had an excellent line, weapons and QB.
ZT beat them twice. He could not even score a TD from inside the 5 - 3 times. I think it is time to stop ripping on ZT and his play calling. At least wait until he gets at least an average offensive line.

(02-20-2022, 07:32 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I doubt that any coach could work wonders with this offensive line. He got us to within 2 minutes of winning he Super Bowl.

Where did all these other great coaches end up? Reid is considered a great coach. He had an excellent line, weapons and QB.
ZT beat them twice. He could not even score a TD from inside the 5 - 3 times. I think it is time to stop ripping on ZT and his play calling. At least wait until he gets at least an average offensive line.

When an OL is so poor it’s rough on the play caller. I was in a suite at a big blue blood college football game. This was 2005. They were getting beat and their offense was awful but had in recent years played for several NC’s. I went out in the hall and their former HOF famous head coach who I knew was outside our door talking to another former coach and was on the phone with one of his former Heisman winners. I listened to the conversation. The blue blood had lost 2 OL starters recently and were inexperienced. The coach told his former player oh ______ can’t call squat.He’s lost as every play one of the linemen whiff or miss an assignment. He’s trying to find something that will work or a player he can count on. Same OC the year before that was considered the best in CF couldn’t do squat. Trust me he had one of the all time NFL running backs in the backfield and a future NFL QB ( backup mostly) and solid future Washington Redskins starter at WR. If the OL can’t do squat a play caller is limited. Last year everybody wanted Taylor gone. Let’s judge Zac as a play caller after the OL is better. And by the way there’s a few teams that watched his play calling in several playoff games that delivered in late games to send them packing.

(02-20-2022, 07:52 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: When an OL is so poor it’s rough on the play caller. I was in a suite at a big blue blood college football game. This was 2005. They were getting beat and their offense was awful but had in recent years played for several NC’s. I went out in the hall and their former HOF famous head coach who I knew was outside our door talking to another former coach and was on the phone with one of his former Heisman winners. I listened to the conversation. The blue blood had lost 2 OL starters recently and were inexperienced. The coach told his former player oh ______ can’t call squat.He’s lost as every play one of the linemen whiff or miss an assignment. He’s trying to find something that will work or a player he can count on. Same OC the year before that was considered the best in CF couldn’t do squat. Trust me he had one of the all time NFL running backs in the backfield and a future NFL QB ( backup mostly) and solid future Washington Redskins starter at WR. If the OL can’t do squat a play caller is limited. Last year everybody wanted Taylor gone. Let’s judge Zac as a play caller after the OL is better. And by the way there’s a few teams that watched his play calling in several playoff games that delivered in late games to send them packing.

Not to mention trying to do play calling with the thought of not getting your QB killed but to try to still be competitive. Someone on here posted that a good play caller can coach around a bad offensive line. If that is the case then why waste spending money on an Offensive line?

(02-20-2022, 07:32 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I doubt that any coach could work wonders with this offensive line. He got us to within 2 minutes of winning he Super Bowl.

Where did all these other great coaches end up? Reid is considered a great coach. He had an excellent line, weapons and QB.
ZT beat them twice. He could not even score a TD from inside the 5 - 3 times. I think it is time to stop ripping on ZT and his play calling. At least wait until he gets at least an average offensive line.

So basically - Give him a loaded roster at every position, then evaluate his play calling?