(02-22-2022, 05:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: Bates himself has admitted he isolated himself from the rest of the team, had teammates constantly checking on him to make sure he was ok, and had the strength coaches giving him "accountability workouts.". I don't consider that leadership.  There's a big difference between being liked in the locker room and being respected as a leader.  You think guys who fought just to make the roster are going to respond to a guy who creates that much drama over his contract situation?

why would you pay a safety that much money when he acts like this? 

I appreciate Bates, but moving on from him would not bother me at all

It would bother the reddit crowd and media, but not me

(02-22-2022, 03:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And too many simply fail to understand the 2nd/3rd affects of giving a player a big payday. IF we pay Bates expect to lose Bell.

I feel we'll do them similar to what we did with JJo and Leon. "Here's a 3 year $36 Mil contract/extension. First come, first served". 

Two totally  different  situation 

1)Bates will be  25 while  Bell will be 28 this off season. 

2.) They're  asked to do two different things. One is deep Centerfield Safety(Bates) and the other is an inbox Safety  Bell. 

3.) The Front office  signed both Iloka and Williams  to Long term deals in 2016. 

As to the OP  the Bengals will resign Bates this off-season.  He is to valuable to the defense not to be here. In fact there is a good chance he will sign long term.

Jessie Bates will be extremely difficult to replace in the secondary. His range at safety allows them to play a very complex defense. With how cheap the secondary is being paid at the moment splurging on a player like Bates is definitely worth it.

(02-22-2022, 04:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: People talking about overpaying Bates because of "leadership". Here's the Bengals captains in 2020...

Vonn Bell (outside FA 1st year)
Giovani Bernard (gone by 2021)
Joe Burrow (rookie)
Josh Bynes (outside FA 1st year, gone by 2021)
AJ Green (gone by 2021)
Kevin Huber
Shawn Williams (benched in 2020, gone by 2021)

That's 3 guys who were brand new to the team that year, and 4 guys who were gone one year later for the SB run.

NFL teams get turnover. Make sure you keep the good ones and don't overpay the others to try to hold on for too long.

I've been a captain in hockey before.
It doesn't really mean much in most cases.
Mostly just a sign of respect from your teammates/coaches.

Teams have to work within the cap. Some teams are better at manipulating the cap than others, but everyone is still restricted by it to some extent.
Teams won't be able to keep all their talent they have and just keep adding more.
They have to make sacrifices at times.
Teams like the Steelers and Patriots have done that for years.
You see some of their high-priced FAs leave and then people complain that they got weaker.
Team turns around and has a lower-priced FA, a draft pick, or just someone from the existing depth chart step up and fill the void rather well.

(02-22-2022, 05:12 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: why would you pay a safety that much money when he acts like this? 

I appreciate Bates, but moving on from him would not bother me at all

It would bother the reddit crowd and media, but not me

Someone can still be a good player but have some off-field things affecting their performance.
Have you ever seen a good performer at your work distracted by something going on at home?
I sure have.
Doesn't mean I think that person doesn't deserve to be there.

(02-22-2022, 06:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Someone can still be a good player but have some off-field things affecting their performance.
Have you ever seen a good performer at your work distracted by something going on at home?
I sure have.
Doesn't mean I think that person doesn't deserve to be there.

he phoned it in the whole regular season

I wouldnt trust that

(02-22-2022, 06:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: he phoned it in the whole regular season

I wouldnt trust that

Not for Top Dollar a Tag would give him

(02-22-2022, 06:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: he phoned it in the whole regular season

I wouldnt trust that

No he didn't.
He wasn't bad the ENTIRE regular season.
His performance did drop for about the first 2 months or so though.

Idc care how, I just want Bates to remain a part of this team.. All the losing he went through here and it's finally turned around..

(02-22-2022, 06:33 PM)Tony Wrote: Idc care how, I just want Bates to remain a part of this team.. All the losing he went through here and it's finally turned around..

are you a Bates fan or a Bengals fan?

(02-22-2022, 06:34 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: are you a Bates fan or a Bengals fan?

 Both man.. Bates has been the best player on this defense for years and a key to our defense... You realize he isn't gonna be easy to replace and was a big reason they went to the Superbowl and had a chance to win it, right?

(02-22-2022, 05:33 PM)Synric Wrote: Jessie Bates will be extremely difficult to replace in the secondary. His range at safety allows them to play a very complex defense. With how cheap the secondary is being paid at the moment splurging on a player like Bates is definitely worth it.

Safeties seem to play a greater role in Anarumo's scheme, than the CBs do in most traditional defenses.  I agree with you that paying the extra to keep the guy that they already drafted and developed makes the most sense.

(02-22-2022, 05:33 PM)Synric Wrote: Jessie Bates will be extremely difficult to replace in the secondary. His range at safety allows them to play a very complex defense. With how cheap the secondary is being paid at the moment splurging on a player like Bates is definitely worth it.

The secondary isn't cheap right now though, it is 3 of the top 8 highest cap hits for the Bengals in 2022. As of right now, Spotrac says the Bengals have the 8th most money in the NFL committed to the secondary for 2022 and that's without potentially giving Bates $13m. They currently have almost 19% of the their total cap space spent on the secondary at $39.8m. Sure they will save money when Waynes is probably released, but most of that $10.8m savings will likely go right back into signing a new CB.

(02-22-2022, 06:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The secondary isn't cheap right now though, it is 3 of the top 8 highest cap hits for the Bengals in 2022. As of right now, Spotrac says the Bengals have the 8th most money in the NFL committed to the secondary for 2022 and that's without potentially giving Bates $13m. They currently have almost 19% of the their total cap space spent on the secondary at $39.8m. Sure they will save money when Waynes is probably released, but most of that $10.8m savings will likely go right back into signing a new CB.

Bengals have spent a boatload on their DL and DBs.
They've relied heavily on cheaper/rookie contracts for their offensive and LB positions.

I think it's time to try to get more balanced.
Show the OL some love lol.

(02-22-2022, 06:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The secondary isn't cheap right now though, it is 3 of the top 8 highest cap hits for the Bengals in 2022. As of right now, Spotrac says the Bengals have the 8th most money in the NFL committed to the secondary for 2022 and that's without potentially giving Bates $13m. They currently have almost 19% of the their total cap space spent on the secondary at $39.8m. Sure they will save money when Waynes is probably released, but most of that $10.8m savings will likely go right back into signing a new CB.

A large portion of their secondary cap is into a player not playing. Awuzie is 7m per year, Hilton is 6m per year and Vonn Bell is 6m per year. 3 of the 5 secondary starters are making well below or at league average at their position. Waynes cap hit makes it look worse than it should.

I'm on the pay Jessie Bates train the man is a huge part of the Bengals defense. His range allows they to do things on defense few other teams can...  That is worth paying for. 

(02-22-2022, 06:35 PM)Tony Wrote:  Both man.. Bates has been the best player on this defense for years and a key to our defense... You realize he isn't gonna be easy to replace and was a big reason they went to the Superbowl and had a chance to win it, right?

Idk, you sound like you're more of a Bates fan

(02-22-2022, 06:54 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Idk, you sound like you're more of a Bates fan

You don't like Bates?  What's wrong with Bates?  He's a good player, came up clutch in some playoff wins.  What do you have against the guy?

(02-22-2022, 06:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You don't like Bates?  What's wrong with Bates?  He's a good player, came up clutch in some playoff wins.  What do you have against the guy?

I don't want to speak for Frank, but I'm assuming it's more about the cost of the player.
If paying that much for a safety impacts potential OL and/or DL signings, that's a potential concern.
I think they can pull off retaining Bates and still covering OL and DL though, but they may have to get creative and take some gambles on some B-tier guys.

(02-22-2022, 06:53 PM)Synric Wrote: A large portion of their secondary cap is into a player not playing. Awuzie is 7m per year, Hilton is 6m per year and Vonn Bell is 6m per year. 3 of the 5 secondary starters are making well below or at league average at their position. Waynes cap hit makes it look worse than it should.

I'm on the pay Jessie Bates train the man is a huge part of the Bengals defense. His range allows they to do things on defense few other teams can...  That is worth paying for. 

By what possible metric? Even if you don't count Waynes, who they will replace with a new CB from his savings... they have the 26th and 28th highest average salary corners in the league in Awuzie and Hilton and the 16th highest average salary safety in the league in Vonn Bell. 

So already that "well below" claim is seriously off as they have 2 of the top-28 paid CBs even without Waynes being counted making them both in the top 1/3rd paid starting corners (if we make the assumption that every team has 3 "Starting" corners these days which I feel comfortable with). Bell is also in the top 1/4th paid of starting safeties.

(02-22-2022, 06:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't want to speak for Frank, but I'm assuming it's more about the cost of the player.
If paying that much for a safety impacts potential OL and/or DL signings, that's a potential concern.
I think they can pull off retaining Bates and still covering OL and DL though, but they may have to get creative and take some gambles on some B-tier guys.

bingo, plus the potential concern of being unstable, as demonstrated earlier in the season