I see talk about wanting to upgrade the C position, and I think it makes sense if the Bengals can find an actual upgrade for a not-crazy cost since OT and OG also need taken care of and are higher priority.
But what I also see a lot of is people talking about cutting Hopkins to use the $6 mill in saved cap to (help) cover the new C.

Rather than that idea, I wonder if it would actually be worthwhile to try moving Hopkins to either LG or RG vs cutting him if a C upgrade is added. Hopkins is entering the final year of his contract and could give that extra year for Carman to develop if he needs it.

It's worth pointing out that back when Hopkins was drafted, many experts felt his best spot on the OL was LG. It fit his profile of being an athletic, quality pass-blocking OL.
Hopkins also started at RG back in 2018 when Pollack previously was the OL coach.
Hopkins allowed 4 sacks that year and just 2 penalties. His pass-blocking PFF grade was 72.8, and his run-blocking grade was 53.0.
Many did not like Hopkins at RG that year because of his lack of ability in the run game.

Keep in mind that when healthy (which is now), Hopkins is a better pass blocker than any other IOL who was on the team last season.
Hopkins also would provide that backup option for C if an injury were to occur.

Would you consider keeping Hopkins but moving him to OG if the Bengals decide to upgrade the C position?

I don't think they will cut Hopkins until they have a known quantity to replace him. That may not happen until after the draft.

(02-25-2022, 05:29 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: I don't think they will cut Hopkins until they have a known quantity to replace him.  That may not happen until after the draft.

So your vote is to cut him if a C upgrade is added?

They aren’t going to, and shouldn’t cut Hopkins. RT, RG and LG are bigger needs, and they’re unlikely to upgrade 4/5 linemen. Maybe draft a Center when/if it makes sense in this year’s draft and run it back next year with a position battle.

Really, if we make a significant upgrade at RG and RT, and either bring back Spain or sign a similar player at LG, the line will be ok in my opinion.

EDIT: Didn’t read the full first post. If we can sign someone like Jensen at C and miss out on a RG, I guess if entertain the idea of moving Hopkins.

(02-25-2022, 05:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I see talk about wanting to upgrade the C position, and I think it makes sense if the Bengals can find an actual upgrade for a not-crazy cost since OT and OG also need taken care of and are higher priority.
But what I also see a lot of is people talking about cutting Hopkins to use the $6 mill in saved cap to (help) cover the new C.

Rather than that idea, I wonder if it would actually be worthwhile to try moving Hopkins to either LG or RG vs cutting him if a C upgrade is added. Hopkins is entering the final year of his contract and could give that extra year for Carman to develop if he needs it.

It's worth pointing out that back when Hopkins was drafted, many experts felt his best spot on the OL was LG. It fit his profile of being an athletic, quality pass-blocking OL.
Hopkins also started at RG back in 2018 when Pollack previously was the OL coach.
Hopkins allowed 4 sacks that year and just 2 penalties. His pass-blocking PFF grade was 72.8, and his run-blocking grade was 53.0.
Many did not like Hopkins at RG that year because of his lack of ability in the run game.

Keep in mind that when healthy (which is now), Hopkins is a better pass blocker than any other IOL who was on the team last season.
Hopkins also would provide that backup option for C if an injury were to occur.

Would you consider keeping Hopkins but moving him to OG if the Bengals decide to upgrade the C position?

To me, it depends on a number of factors.  Cap space is the biggest one.  If we need the cap space, then cut him loose.  If not, I would hold on to him.  While he would be overpaid for a backup, he can play all 5 OL positions.  He's not great at any of them, but can at least be a serviceable spot starter anywhere on the OL and allow you to run your offense.  If the Bengals tag/resign Bates AND land an A tier FA OL(Armstead, Brown, Scherff), I think they have to cut him.  

It's not what I would do, personally, but I think Trey gets kicked to RG and will likely compete with Carman for that spot.  The logic with that move is Trey is a better RG than anyone we had there last year, so you improve two positions on your OL with one FA C signing.  By having him compete with Carman, they aren't giving up on a 2nd round pick after only one year, either.  

(02-25-2022, 05:29 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: I don't think they will cut Hopkins until they have a known quantity to replace him.  That may not happen until after the draft.

If he couldnt make the starting 5 he be a good backup not sure his salary though

if we draft any OL we will have a lot of OL on the 1st or 2nd year of a rookie deal unless we cut some from last year

(02-25-2022, 05:29 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: I don't think they will cut Hopkins until they have a known quantity to replace him. That may not happen until after the draft.

They need to get someone like Jensen in FA but have Tre at backup center and make an all out competition between Hopkins, Spain, Carman, a vet one year deal mid-level vet guard, and others. Draft at #31 a tackle and also resign Reiff.

(02-25-2022, 06:18 PM)Whatever Wrote: To me, it depends on a number of factors.  Cap space is the biggest one.  If we need the cap space, then cut him loose.  If not, I would hold on to him.  While he would be overpaid for a backup, he can play all 5 OL positions.  He's not great at any of them, but can at least be a serviceable spot starter anywhere on the OL and allow you to run your offense.  If the Bengals tag/resign Bates AND land an A tier FA OL(Armstead, Brown, Scherff), I think they have to cut him.  

It's not what I would do, personally, but I think Trey gets kicked to RG and will likely compete with Carman for that spot.  The logic with that move is Trey is a better RG than anyone we had there last year, so you improve two positions on your OL with one FA C signing.  By having him compete with Carman, they aren't giving up on a 2nd round pick after only one year, either.  

My reason for the question is more about potentially making him a starting OG if the team signs an upgrade at C.
He would be pretty highly paid to be a backup, but that $6 mill saved wouldn't really be able to find much of an upgrade at OG.
FWIW, Spain is not better at OG when it comes to pass blocking.

I think both Hopkins and Carman fit better at LG than RG.
I'd rather bring in a proven vet at RG and let Carman compete with someone for LG.

Release him.

That's a huge $7.1m gamble at G on a guy heading into his age 30 season that hasn't played the position since what, 2017? Before being kicked out of the starting lineup by Alex Redmond.

Meanwhile projections have Daniels and Corbett at $10m/yr and $9.25m/yr, respectively, according to Piston's thread. You save $6m by releasing Hopkins, so you're guaranteed a better 25-year-old or 27-year-old player for just $3.25-4m/yr more. No gamble needed.

I voted release him. I really feel that moving him back to Guard would yield terrible results, he simply cannot move defenders off the ball. He can't even budge the guy right over him enough to get a yard on critical short yardage situations. He's been adequate in pass protection, but I think that we can at least expect adequate protection from a guy that can at least come through in short yardage situations.

Cut him, save the $6M, and use that money toward a Center that can move someone.

(02-25-2022, 07:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I voted release him.  I really feel that moving him back to Guard would yield terrible results, he simply cannot move defenders off the ball.  He can't even budge the guy right over him enough to get a yard on critical short yardage situations.  He's been adequate in pass protection, but I think that we can at least expect adequate protection from a guy that can at least come through in short yardage situations.

Cut him, save the $6M, and use that money toward a Center that can move someone.

Me to

I just think it's time we stop accepting so-so Olinemen and start expecting better.

(02-25-2022, 07:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Me to

I just think it's time we stop accepting so-so Olinemen and start expecting better.

Exactly.  Frank Pollack seems to be a decent coach, so let's get him some better raw materials to work with.

Not even close for me. Cut & save $6M. Hopkins was not that great of an OG.

Option 1. Jensen
Option 2. Bozeman

Sucks, but cut him. Would like him as a backup Center but he is too expensive for that.

If Hop could play OG even close to as good at Center this would be an option but he just isn't good at Guard from what I seen.

Weird, Center is the more complicated position but he is much better there...

(02-25-2022, 06:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: If he couldnt make the starting 5 he be a good backup not sure his salary though

if we draft any OL we will have a lot of OL on the 1st or 2nd year of a rookie deal unless we cut some from last year

His salary is way to high to be a back up.

Cut and re- sign at a backup salary. I doubt that other teams will be rushing to sign him.

I also want to remind folks that when we drafted Carmen, a Clemson insider who is a close friend that Carmen was not a second round level prospect because he did not have an NFL attitude. I have read other posts stating that some in Bengals organization now share this opinion. I am skeptical on his future. Huge mistake to count on Carmen as being a legitimate improvement. Hell he could not beat out our guard who maybe was the worst right guard in super bowl history.

The kid we drafted from ECU may be a better prospect

We really need 4 new o linemen though Spain might be ok to re sign provided we replace the other three positions.

Don’t screw around any more with protecting the only guy on our team who can deliver a Super Bowl.

He's worse at guard than he is at center. He was bad at center last year. He's got to go.

I've seen many people over the years say on here that the line had some of their best years when they had a good center (Braham).

If anyone with a pff membership has time, I'm curious how the guard ratings are on teams with a top 10 center compared to teams with a bottom 10 center. I think there would be a noticeable difference in average score, that I think getting a top C would help elevate the guard play.

Top 11 Centers
1.Creed Humphrey Chiefs
2.Corey Linsley Chargers
3.Jason Kelce Eagles
4.Chase Roullier Commanders
5.David Andrew’s Patriots
6.J.C. Tretter Browns
7.Matt Hennessy Falcons
8.Ben Jones Titans
9.Connor Mcgovern Jets
10.Brian Allen Rams
11.Bradley Bozeman Ravens (reported Bengals interest)

Top 20 Guards
1.Joel Bitonio Browns
2.Zack Martin Cowboys
3.Michael Onwenu Patriots
4.Shaq Mason Patriots
5.Wyatt Teller Browns
6.Chris Lindstrom Falcons
7.Ali Marpet Bucs
8.Joe Thuney Chiefs
9.Wes Schweitzer Commanders
10.Kevin Zeitler Ravens
11.Connor Williams Cowboys
12.Matt Feiler Chargers
13.Laken Tomlinson 49ers
14.Brandon Scherff Commanders
15.Ted Karras Patriots
16.Trey Smith Chiefs
17.Erek Flowers Commanders
18.Alex Cappa Bucs
19.James Daniel’s Bears
20.Jack Driscoll Eagles

He’s ass at both so idc

Hopkins was much worse at G than C from what I recall.