(02-26-2022, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It has nothing to do with "fooling the defense".  Even you admit that when Burrow goes under center we run the ball 80% of the time.  So we are not fooling any one then either.


Short yardage conversion rates are lower when running with the QB under center compared to running out of the shotgun.  That is a fact.  The numbers prove it.

So is it the same every time with every back in every situation?

I explained how it would have been different and you didn't even attempt to counter it.

(02-26-2022, 06:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: People are entitled to their opinion. I don't think the play would have turned out any different.

The overall point is, running from the shotgun is statistically more effective.

So is it the same every time with every back?

I explained how it would have been different and you didn't even attempt to counter it.

(02-26-2022, 06:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But he would not hav had the option to cut to the open hole.  So that decreases his chances.

Does not matter what your opinion is because we have stats that show that a team is mor likely to convert short yardage situations running out of the shotgun compared to the QB under center.

Once again, you show how little of football knowledge you have.

Backs cut to open holes all the time when they get the ball in the backfield.

Either way, that doesn't make much sense because linemen block to open a specific hole, whether it's from the shotgun.

Does not matter what your opinion is because watching the play shows that Burrow being under center and Perine running at the line from the snap of the ball meant that he would have gotten enough for the first because he would have gotten there faster and the defender's actions would have been the same.

(02-26-2022, 04:45 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It's subjective though.

Common sense says that Mixon or even Perine would have had a better shot at getting the first down if Burrow had been under center.

Perine or Mixon would have gotten to the line a split second faster so he could have gotten the little bit more we needed.

It is going to largely hold true that every back in the league is the same in this regard. Nothing about Perine or Mixon is different. Shotgun rushes are more successful in short yardage situations. 

Short Yardage Shotgun Stats - Career


Short yardage is defined as <= 2 yards to go


Mixon - 64 rushes with a 50% conversion rate.
Perine - 11 rushes for a 54% conversion rate

Short Yardage Under Center Stats - Career


Short yardage is defined as <= 2 yards to go


Mixon - 84 attempts with a 41% conversion rate
Perine - 22 attempts with a 45% conversion rate



If you break this down to "short yardage" meaning one yard or less to go, the gap becomes even wider. 

Short Yardage Shotgun Stats - Career



Short yardage is defined as <= 1 yards to go


Mixon - 44 rushes with a 64% conversion rate.
Perine - 9 rushes for a 66% conversion rate

Short Yardage Under Center Stats - Career


Short yardage is defined as <= 1 yards to go


Mixon - 61 attempts with a 39% conversion rate
Perine - 15 attempts with a 53% conversion rate

(02-26-2022, 06:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Once again, you show how little of football knowledge you have.

RBs don't make cuts on straight dive plays for the exact same reason you think they are more effective in short yardage.  Momentum.

And I also know running from the shotgun is more effective in short yardage situations.

(02-26-2022, 06:40 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It is going to largely hold true that every back in the league is the same in this regard. Nothing about Perine or Mixon is different. Shotgun rushes are more successful in short yardage situations. 

Short Yardage Shotgun Stats - Career


Short yardage is defined as <= 2 yards to go


Mixon - 64 rushes with a 50% conversion rate.
Perine - 11 rushes for a 54% conversion rate

Short Yardage Under Center Stats - Career


Short yardage is defined as <= 2 yards to go


Mixon - 84 attempts with a 41% conversion rate
Perine - 22 attempts with a 45% conversion rate



If you break this down to "short yardage" meaning one yard or less to go, the gap becomes even wider. 

Short Yardage Shotgun Stats - Career



Short yardage is defined as <= 1 yards to go


Mixon - 44 rushes with a 64% conversion rate.
Perine - 9 rushes for a 66% conversion rate

Short Yardage Under Center Stats - Career


Short yardage is defined as <= 1 yards to go


Mixon - 61 attempts with a 39% conversion rate
Perine - 15 attempts with a 53% conversion rate

Stop avoiding it and go to my evaluations of the specific play and tell me how that was wrong.

(02-26-2022, 06:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: RBs don't make cuts on straight dive plays for the exact same reason you think they are more effective in short yardage.  Momentum.

And I also know running from the shotgun is more effective in short yardage situations.

Stop avoiding it and go to my evaluations of the specific play and tell me how that was wrong.

I can't believe people keep trying to argue with Brad with things like statistics and facts. Dude has proven incapable of changing his mind even in the face of such things.

It honestly almost impresses the hell out of me if it wasn't so God damned sad and ridiculous.

(02-26-2022, 06:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I explained how it would have been different and you didn't even attempt to counter it.

Brad, i don't have to counter every single thing you say. There are a couple things Perine could have done differently. Mixon could have been in instead. Zac could have called a "better" play. 

The fact of the matter on that play is, Perine went straight ahead and ran into a line, that would have been in the exact same place had he taken a handoff from a QB under Center. There's no guarantee that doing it that way would have been more beneficial. There's only the opinion that it could have. If you look at the play, he could have gone left (like Mixon has done several times this year), right behind Uzo and who knows how many yards he would have gained. You should be blaming Perine not tilting at windmills. 

None of that detracts from the stone cold fact that running games benefit more from handing the ball off from shotgun, not to mention that you completely take away any kind of RPO when the QB is under Center. 

(02-26-2022, 08:52 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I can't believe people keep trying to argue with Brad with things like statistics and facts. Dude has proven incapable of changing his mind even in the face of such things.

It honestly almost impresses the hell out of me if it wasn't so God damned sad and ridiculous.

You try to give people the benefit of the doubt and hope that when you present facts to support the opposite of what they say, they will eventually come around...

(02-26-2022, 09:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You try to give people the benefit of the doubt and hope that when you present facts to support the opposite of what they say, they will eventually come around...

Yeah but the smart investor knows when to recognize the bad investment and cut his losses.

(02-26-2022, 11:09 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Yeah but the smart investor knows when to recognize the bad investment and cut his losses.

True. And to my chagrin, i'm not following the intent of my sig very well.

RYAN JENSEN.

(02-26-2022, 06:55 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Stop avoiding it and go to my evaluations of the specific play and tell me how that was wrong.

Stop avoiding it and go to my evaluations of the specific play and tell me how that was wrong.

You can't win by playing "pretend".  It is impossible to say what would have happened under different circumstances.

With Burrow under center LBs probably cheat up more into the gaps.

And Perine ran from left of Burrow to behind the rigth guard.  I don't think he would have even hit the same hole with Burrow under center.

(02-27-2022, 12:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't win by playing "pretend".  It is impossible to say what would have happened under different circumstances.

With Burrow under center LBs probably cheat up more into the gaps.

And Perine ran from left of Burrow to behind the rigth guard.  I don't think he would have even hit the same hole with Burrow under center.

We are discussing what could have been done differently and what could be done differently in the future. You're the one that made the thread, so you would know that.

You're admitting that I'm right by not even attempting to counter my points because they killed your argument. 

(02-26-2022, 08:52 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I can't believe people keep trying to argue with Brad with things like statistics and facts. Dude has proven incapable of changing his mind even in the face of such things.

It honestly almost impresses the hell out of me if it wasn't so God damned sad and ridiculous.

Personal attacks instead of discussion. 

Hilarious yet you somehow will claim it's a worthwhile post.

(02-26-2022, 09:11 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Brad, i don't have to counter every single thing you say. There are a couple things Perine could have done differently. Mixon could have been in instead. Zac could have called a "better" play. 

The fact of the matter on that play is, Perine went straight ahead and ran into a line, that would have been in the exact same place had he taken a handoff from a QB under Center. There's no guarantee that doing it that way would have been more beneficial. There's only the opinion that it could have. If you look at the play, he could have gone left (like Mixon has done several times this year), right behind Uzo and who knows how many yards he would have gained. You should be blaming Perine not tilting at windmills. 

None of that detracts from the stone cold fact that running games benefit more from handing the ball off from shotgun, not to mention that you completely take away any kind of RPO when the QB is under Center. 

When they're directly relevant to the point, yes you do.

No, that's false, because Perine would have gotten to the line sooner.

(02-27-2022, 05:20 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Personal attacks instead of discussion. 

Hilarious yet you somehow will claim it's a worthwhile post.


When they're directly relevant to the point, yes you do.

No, that's false, because Perine would have gotten to the line sooner.

I claimed nothing about the quality of my previous posts, nor any if my posts. That judgement isn't for me to make. I simply point out what I see. That you proceeded further in your post to prove my point is deliciously ironic, though.

(02-27-2022, 10:09 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I claimed nothing about the quality of my previous posts, nor any if my posts. That judgement isn't for me to make. I simply point out what I see. That you proceeded further in your post to prove my point is deliciously ironic, though.

Statistics and facts aren't always right.

This was situational football.

I pointed out facts in the video but all of you ignore them. It's convenient that you can ignore those facts but then accuse me of doing the same thing.

If calling plays was based off of just reading stats, then being an offensive coordinator would be easy.

(02-27-2022, 10:44 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Statistics and facts aren't always right.

This was situational football.

I pointed out facts in the video but all of you ignore them. It's convenient that you can ignore those facts but then accuse me of doing the same thing.

If calling plays was based off of just reading stats, then being an offensive coordinator would be easy.

Seems to me if we need 1 yard, line them up in the I formation with Shelvin taught to play fullback ala Peko. The line engages into a stalemate as usual, Shelvin then blasts it with his huge body, and Mixon goes over the top. 1st down.

(02-26-2022, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It has nothing to do with "fooling the defense".  Even you admit that when Burrow goes under center we run the ball 80% of the time.  So we are not fooling any one then either.


Short yardage conversion rates are lower when running with the QB under center compared to running out of the shotgun.  That is a fact.  The numbers prove it.

Running out of the shotgun has everything to do with “fooling the defense”.  For you to state otherwise is simply, ignorance!

Like I stated, the bengals being ineffective with Burrow under center on short yardage running plays, is the direct result of a piss poor OL.

Fix the OL and it has a domino effect on this offense. I’m telling you a better run game will do wonders for this offense. Mixon is an explosive running back. Unleash him and this offense explodes