I do feel like the Bengals lack some creativity with how they structure players contracts. How do the Packers give Rodgers 4 yrs 200m with 153 guaranteed and somehow leesen his cap hit this year. He must've had a big cap hit originally. But look at last year I believe it was said we barely missed out on Thuney and maybe we didn't have the cap but could we have done things to push the cap hit to this year?

(03-08-2022, 05:44 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: You can’t look at contracts from a fan point of view, you have to look at it at an ownership point of view, and also, even tho he is extremely wealthy, MB is one of the poorest owners in the NFL. It’s a business to him, not a playpen

In 2019, the NFL salary cap was $182M. Each team received $296M from the league. More than enough to cover all player contracts. Or $114M more than the maximum amount allowed for all player contracts.

It doesn’t matter how “poor” Mike is relative to Jerry Jones. They have the same salary cap. And the NFL gives them more money than they need to sign players before they make a dime locally. Packers made an additional $210M for $506M total. For one year. Despite earning $506M, the Packers could only spend $182M on players just like every other team. Green Bay’s market size is roughly half of Cincinnati’s. Market size is not an excuse when it comes to player salaries.

If Jerry makes more than Mike it’s because of capitalism. In which case, Mike needs to try harder.

(03-08-2022, 04:49 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It seems like over the past few years the Bengals have missed out on certain free agents (some being their own) because the contract was hung up on the guaranteed money. It is rumored that this was the hang up with the Bates contract.

It seems like more and more teams are offering more guaranteed money over more years, which is definitely enticing to players. Players love the guaranteed money.

Is anyone else worried about the Bengals ability to keep their players and to sign free agents if they don't change the way in which the structure contracts? We can have all the salary cap in the world but if Team A is offering a player more guaranteed money than Team B, its pretty obvious which team that player will choose.  

I am a bit concerned with this growing trend in current NFL contracts and the Bengals lack of desire to change from the way they currently do things. I hope we don't miss out on impact players because of it.

The Super Bowl tells me the Who Dey, New Day is working.   Bengals dumped most Marvin Lewis players, and brought in Zac Taylor system players.  Super Bowl tells me Who Dey, New Dey is working.  Dumping Price about cleaned house on Marvin players who needed shown the exit door.   Put me down as one who thinks Who Dey, New Day is Working, with the exception that Burrow still needs Pass Protection, and I think they add Blockers this off season.  I think Bengals are 5 chess moves ahead of most fans on here, as they are looking long range years down the road, and often fans are looking short range.   Example is Zac Taylor was a long range hire, but fans didn't grasp that. Fans wanted wins in his first year, which is too short sighted. 

(03-08-2022, 06:04 PM)J24 Wrote: The problem with free agency is there are very few A guys out there and if they are they are at the end of the line. B+ Players get A+ money.
We got very lucky last season that Hendrickson was undervalued and also Awuzie. Both guys were cheap and gave us A grade football  this season. Same could  be said for Reader and Bell.

Hendrickson had the 6th highest cap hit for DE's last year and Reader had the 4th highest for DT's, and both are currently top 10 in yearly average. Not sure I would call them cheap. Guys like Awuzie, Hilton and Bell were really good values though. 

(03-08-2022, 07:57 PM)kevin Wrote: The Super Bowl tells me the Who Dey, New Day is working.   Bengals dumped most Marvin Lewis players, and brought in Zac Taylor system players.  Super Bowl tells me Who Dey, New Dey is working.  Dumping Price about cleaned house on Marvin players who needed shown the exit door.   Put me down as one who thinks Who Dey, New Day is Working, with the exception that Burrow still needs Pass Protection, and I think they add Blockers this off season.  I think Bengals are 5 chess moves ahead of most fans on here, as they are looking long range years down the road, and often fans are looking short range.   Example is Zac Taylor was a long range hire, but fans didn't grasp that. Fans wanted wins in his first year, which is too short sighted. 

Boyd, Hubbard, Mixon, Bates and Uzomah just to name a few of the Marvin guys that make up a core of our team. We'll see just how much this front office is playing Chess how they handle this offseason. I think we could've done more for the oline last offseason and maybe were champions right now. I still don't know if Taylor is the kind of coach to put his players in the best situation to succeed. I think if he was we win that superbowl. I think builds a good team community and has the team fundamentally sound with minimal penalties. But I think we still have to build this team to overcome his short comings.

(03-08-2022, 06:04 PM)J24 Wrote: The problem with free agency is there are very few A guys out there and if they are they are at the end of the line. B+ Players get A+ money.
We got very lucky last season that Hendrickson was undervalued and also Awuzie. Both guys were cheap and gave us A grade football  this season. Same could  be said for Reader and Bell.

There's guys like that out there every year. It's where scouting comes in.

(03-08-2022, 06:18 PM)casear2727 Wrote: So we need to take into consideration the required escrow.  98% of guaranteed money and 35% of all salaries must be in cash in an escrow.

Burrow may require $150M go to escrow by himself. Add Chase and Higgins, and just those we will definitely re-sign after next season and this number could get well get over $250M dollars.

The salary cap is the same for all teams as is the %'s of dollars (98% of guarantees and 35% of salaries) for all teams, however the amount of actual cash in in the escrow is very different.

Wonder how the Saints can be so far over the cap yet still sign people? Restructures. How do they work? With bonuses and other guaranteed money. As long as a team has a billionaire owner that can dump cash in the escrow they can manipulate the cap.

If a team cannot afford the cash required in escrow it cannot sign new players. We have a broke owner without external income. We all know they have been hoarding cash for 2 years just to make sure we keep JoeyB. This SB run surely brought in a bunch of cash but also greater expectations for better players that come with higher guaranteed money requirements adding more stress to that escrow account.

This is why a Tunsil with a $10M guaranteed contract is so much more appealing than an Armstead who will require possibly 5X that amount in free agency (also the age factor). That's 40M less that would be required in the escrow.

I have zero doubt that the guaranteed money was a major factor in the Bates negotiation.

Damn how rich are you? Estimates show the Bengals owner being worth around a billion dollars.

I wish I was Mike Brown broke…

No need to change the contract structure. There is a reason many teams end up in cap hell and we do not. This has a lot to do with it.

I don't know, seems we have done kinda ok in FA the last couple of years... No problem signing guys doing business the old way

(03-08-2022, 08:09 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Hendrickson had the 6th highest cap hit for DE's last year and Reader had the 4th highest for DT's, and both are currently top 10 in yearly average. Not sure I would call them cheap. Guys like Awuzie, Hilton and Bell were really good values though. 

34th in total guarantee money according to over the Cap for Hendrickson and 17th for DJ Reader in Guaranteed money. So both are  relatively cheap.

(03-08-2022, 08:40 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Damn how rich are you?  Estimates show the Bengals owner being worth around a billion dollars.

I wish I was Mike Brown broke…

Mike's value is the team silly (closer to 3B now), so that doesnt provide extra cash infusion like other billionaire owners with additional income streams.  And value has zero to do with cash on hand. I'm sure you dont need an accounting lesson from me.

(03-08-2022, 10:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Mike's value is the team silly (closer to 3B now), so that doesnt provide extra cash infusion like other billionaire owners with additional income streams.  And value has zero to do with cash on hand. I'm sure you dont need an accounting lesson from me.

I get that professor but I was joking because you didn’t say he was one of the poorest owners (he is) you said he was broke. Not the case at all. In fact he’s got the $ but is old fashioned. Could have plenty more cash if he sold the stadium naming rights but thats another story…

(03-08-2022, 09:26 PM)J24 Wrote: 34th in total guarantee money according to over the Cap for Hendrickson and 17th for DJ Reader in Guaranteed money. So both are  relatively cheap.

Guaranteed money doesn't make them cheaper. They still get paid their full salary. It makes them safer, not cheaper

(03-08-2022, 10:23 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I get that professor but I was joking because you didn’t say he was one of the poorest owners (he is) you said he was broke. Not the case at all. In fact he’s got the $ but is old fashioned. Could have plenty more cash if he sold the stadium naming rights but thats another story…

If we compare all the NFL owners' net worth minus their teams value, Mike Brown will look like poverty through the lens of those deep pocket billionaires.  You make a great point regarding naming rights especially after this season...

(03-08-2022, 09:26 PM)J24 Wrote: 34th in total guarantee money according to over the Cap for Hendrickson and 17th for DJ Reader in Guaranteed money. So both are  relatively cheap.

Hendrickson had a team option after year 1. It was very much a prove it deal.

(03-08-2022, 10:40 PM)casear2727 Wrote: If we compare all the NFL owners' net worth minus their teams value, Mike Brown will look like poverty through the lens of those deep pocket billionaires.  You make a great point regarding naming rights especially after this season...

There is revenue sharing. If this was MLB, they'd have to trade Burrow eventually. In the NFL, revenue sharing helps ALOT.

(03-09-2022, 12:30 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There is revenue sharing. If this was MLB, they'd have to trade Burrow eventually. In the NFL, revenue sharing helps ALOT.

I dont disagree and that helps us a lot but the additional cash outside of revenue sharing, royalties, tickets/concessions/gear, and advertising that can be added to escrows come from the owners pocket. We dont have that option.

(03-09-2022, 12:36 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagree and that helps us a lot but the additional cash outside of revenue sharing, royalties, tickets/concessions/gear, and advertising that can be added to escrows come from the owners pocket. We dont have that option.

I saw Aaron Rodgers contract includes $153M in guarantees. Where did Green Bay’s owner get that?

(03-08-2022, 07:26 PM)Housh Wrote: And imo the window is every single year Burrow plays a full season behind a solid o line.

You could be right. While he's on the rookie contract, you have the potential to be an absolutely dominant team in all three phases. That was the window I was referring to, but you have a solid point. He gives you a shot at it regardless.

(03-09-2022, 04:50 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I saw Aaron Rodgers contract includes $153M in guarantees. Where did Green Bay’s owner get that?

They're publicly owned. 360,584 stockholders to be exact.