(03-05-2022, 03:03 AM)Whatever Wrote: Hard to pin the loss on the secondary when they held Stafford to his lowest passer rating of the playoffs, especially with some of the calls against them that weren't called all game.  Our defense outperformed our offense during the playoffs and a big reason is almost all of the FA dollars have gone into the defense while the offense gets scraps.

I'm not saying we don't do anything except dump money into the OL, but we need starters at...

LG
RT
TE
3 tech
CB
FS

That's not even counting specialists, an actual competent RG, and depth needs.  We currently have just over $48 mil in cap space.  We'll be up around $58 mil when Waynes gets cut.  Jackson will likely want to become the highest paid CB in the league, so you have to estimate $21 mil APY for him, plus another $15 mil APY for Bates.  Based on projections, you're looking at another $8 mil APY to re-up Hill or Ogunjobi.  Yes, the cap hits won't be the APY, but we've safely spent well over half of our cap space on defense with this plan and we need a starting caliber LG, RG, RT, and TE.  TE will be $8 mil APY based on projections.  B tier G's are $7 mil APY and RT's $10 mil.  So, $32 mil APY on 4 players on offense to go with $44 mil with three players on defense.  That's $76 mil APY that we will have to manipulate down to probably a $48 mil '22 cap hit to leave enough room for rookie pool and injuries.  Then we basically have to get a QB, 2 WR's, 2 DT's, a LB, 2 CB's, and 2 S's out of the draft just to fill out the depth chart.  

Beyond that, you're talking about the team budgeting for position groups.  Do you really think they budget for both Bates and Jackson?  Jackson seems like a guy they'd go after if they can't reach a deal with Bates, not someone they would go after in addition to.

I may take heat for this, but Jackson > Bates. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Bates, but who doesn't believe it's easier to replace Bates, than it is to find a true #1 CB? Bates hasn't exactly been consistent. He was lights out when it mattered and that's the best argument anyone here has. And perhaps that's a good enough reason. We spent a shit ton on Waynes, if we cut him, and Bates doesn't get tagged/re-signed, you have to go out there and improve the secondary. It's not like we have a ton invested in it right now, so its justified imo if we did wanna go get JC. 

Not realistic and I would be head over heals to extend Bates. But the tag?.... Idk man. I don't want to have a disgruntled safety playing subpar cause he didn't get a multi-year deal. And I don't blame him, I'm just saying we gotta look at what is best for us. Bates isn't exactly Ed Reed. I think at times like the post season, he can be in that discussion. We'll see I guess. 

(03-05-2022, 03:03 AM)Whatever Wrote: Hard to pin the loss on the secondary when they held Stafford to his lowest passer rating of the playoffs, especially with some of the calls against them that weren't called all game.  Our defense outperformed our offense during the playoffs and a big reason is almost all of the FA dollars have gone into the defense while the offense gets scraps.

I'm not saying we don't do anything except dump money into the OL, but we need starters at...

LG
RT
TE
3 tech
CB
FS

That's not even counting specialists, an actual competent RG, and depth needs.  We currently have just over $48 mil in cap space.  We'll be up around $58 mil when Waynes gets cut.  Jackson will likely want to become the highest paid CB in the league, so you have to estimate $21 mil APY for him, plus another $15 mil APY for Bates.  Based on projections, you're looking at another $8 mil APY to re-up Hill or Ogunjobi.  Yes, the cap hits won't be the APY, but we've safely spent well over half of our cap space on defense with this plan and we need a starting caliber LG, RG, RT, and TE.  TE will be $8 mil APY based on projections.  B tier G's are $7 mil APY and RT's $10 mil.  So, $32 mil APY on 4 players on offense to go with $44 mil with three players on defense.  That's $76 mil APY that we will have to manipulate down to probably a $48 mil '22 cap hit to leave enough room for rookie pool and injuries.  Then we basically have to get a QB, 2 WR's, 2 DT's, a LB, 2 CB's, and 2 S's out of the draft just to fill out the depth chart.  

Beyond that, you're talking about the team budgeting for position groups.  Do you really think they budget for both Bates and Jackson?  Jackson seems like a guy they'd go after if they can't reach a deal with Bates, not someone they would go after in addition to.

I’ve done the math on a lot of this and it works out fine but it worked out with a cap number for Jackson closer to 17-18, rumors today of him wanting to be the highest paid corner in the league probably make this a non starter. That said I’d still offer Gilmore 16 a year on a two year deal to try and snag him.

People thinking we are spending 40 million on O line are about to be really disappointed. From what I heard they still expect a return from their drafted guys last year and want to add another one or two in this draft. They will look to FA but it’s not going to be this massive spending spree on the o line like some think.

(03-05-2022, 03:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: I’ve done the math on a lot of this and it works out fine but it worked out with a cap number for Jackson closer to 17-18, rumors today of him wanting to be the highest paid corner in the league probably make this a non starter. That said I’d still offer Gilmore 16 a year on a two year deal to try and snag him.

People thinking we are spending 40 million on O line are about to be really disappointed. From what I heard they still expect a return from their drafted guys last year and want to add another one or two in this draft. They will look to FA but it’s not going to be this massive spending spree on the o line like some think.

I'm coming around on the idea of getting a top corner. I know there a lot of variables involved, but if you had to guess, what do you think the OL free agent signings will look like? 

(03-05-2022, 07:25 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I'm coming around on the idea of getting a top corner. I know there a lot of variables involved, but if you had to guess, what do you think the OL free agent signings will look like? 

I think it starts with Spain. Depending on what he’s asking for I could see them keeping him then from there it’s based on market rate. If Spain walks I think LG gets filled by Carman or Smith and they choose to go after RG early in the draft or FA. Reason I say this is I do wonder if Carman would be more comfortable back in the left side after being a LT throughout college.

I tend to believe they’d like to upgrade from Hopkins based on them meeting with a lot of Centers at the combine. I could see them checking prices of the high end Centers and if they can get someone like a Jensen they cut Hopkins then move the money to come back with a low end tier 2 tackle (still better than Prince). If the Center search doesn’t pan out, I think we end up going Center day 2 to compete but now we look at a higher tier RT. This would be a guy like a Trent Brown, Morgan Moses, etc.

As for RG, see above in regards to Spain/Carman/Smith. If Spain is back those two fight for RG but if not RG could be another one of those mid tier guys, not a Scherff but that next group.

(03-05-2022, 03:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: I’ve done the math on a lot of this and it works out fine but it worked out with a cap number for Jackson closer to 17-18, rumors today of him wanting to be the highest paid corner in the league probably make this a non starter. That said I’d still offer Gilmore 16 a year on a two year deal to try and snag him.

People thinking we are spending 40 million on O line are about to be really disappointed. From what I heard they still expect a return from their drafted guys last year and want to add another one or two in this draft. They will look to FA but it’s not going to be this massive spending spree on the o line like some think.

I would be reluctant to throw that much money at Gilmore given his age and the fact he's missed 14 games over the last 2 seasons.  

My personal thought is $30 mil on OL.  They've been linked to a couple of top tier OL in Jensen and Brown, so I don't see them dumpster diving like in year's past.  I'm sure they would like to see a return on their draft picks, but the fact that Adeniji was a total embarrassment at RG and was still starting over Carman speaks volumes.  

(03-05-2022, 11:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: I would be reluctant to throw that much money at Gilmore given his age and the fact he's missed 14 games over the last 2 seasons.  

My personal thought is $30 mil on OL.  They've been linked to a couple of top tier OL in Jensen and Brown, so I don't see them dumpster diving like in year's past.  I'm sure they would like to see a return on their draft picks, but the fact that Adeniji was a total embarrassment at RG and was still starting over Carman speaks volumes.  

The quad was most of it so I’m not too worried, but those are risks you take for the kind of production he gives you. It’s also why getting Apple back on a team friendly CB4 deal would be a really nice move but worst case you look for a CB early day 3.

Don’t confuse “dumpster diving” with simply not over paying. Brown is not making it out of KC so whoever is linking them to him is mistaken. Jensen I have seen PFF mention it but they don’t know they just draw lines to needs and then I’ve heard people regurgitate that link. Jensen has reportedly drawn a TON of interest with some believing he could make close to $12 million a year. Bozeman has also gotten a lot of run lately and some think he could sneakily grab money right around 10 per year. I don’t think we touch either once the market shakes out and stay with Trey and draft one day 2.

People confuse rookies struggling with rookies being done after one year. They are not going to give up on Carman after one year, no matter what you think about sunk cost that’s just the way it goes in the NFL and if your drafted that high you will get plenty of cracks. As I mentioned in another post, I think they may look to get him a shot on the left side since he is more familiar there (people think switching left to right is easy…it’s not) and I could see an open competition between he and Smith.

Again, I think they sign two tier 2 free agents (guys still way better than we had last year starting) draft one expected starter and let Carman/Smith battle for another spot with Jonah being the only lock.

There are rumblings about the Bengals showing interest in JC Jackson per Rapien on SI/All Bengals, and sourced to NFL insider Jordan Schultz. Not hugely newsworthy, but the mere suggestion of there being interest is worthy of discussion.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/gm-report/bengals-interested-patriots-cornerback-jc-jackson?fbclid=IwAR3E3Q46YUVUmP8wotKVC3SGMNmGQCQVVmxcY3giDDte6s8Nwr7pbpVrQ6M

Personally, it’s hard to imagine something like this getting done with the O-line still in shambles, but it’s probably right up there with 3T as biggest need outside of of the o-line.

(03-08-2022, 10:39 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: There are rumblings about the Bengals showing interest in JC Jackson per Rapien on SI/All Bengals, and sourced to NFL insider Jordan Schultz. Not hugely newsworthy, but the mere suggestion of there being interest is worthy of discussion.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/gm-report/bengals-interested-patriots-cornerback-jc-jackson?fbclid=IwAR3E3Q46YUVUmP8wotKVC3SGMNmGQCQVVmxcY3giDDte6s8Nwr7pbpVrQ6M

Personally, it’s hard to imagine something like this getting done with the O-line still in shambles, but it’s probably right up there with 3T as biggest need outside of of the o-line.

I mean...if you can solidify the line as well, bring on the superstar. Would give our D a lights out feel to it and leave only 3T, TE and depth as the only pieces left to get

(03-04-2022, 07:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: You might as well stay with Eli Apple and draft a rookie. Any improvement over late season Apple is minimal and not worth the money.

Agreed on Apple, but I want a more veteran CB that can be a quality starter should Awuzie or Apple get injured.  And Apple is a FA as well....wonder what they will offer him?

(03-08-2022, 10:39 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: There are rumblings about the Bengals showing interest in JC Jackson per Rapien on SI/All Bengals, and sourced to NFL insider Jordan Schultz. Not hugely newsworthy, but the mere suggestion of there being interest is worthy of discussion.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/gm-report/bengals-interested-patriots-cornerback-jc-jackson?fbclid=IwAR3E3Q46YUVUmP8wotKVC3SGMNmGQCQVVmxcY3giDDte6s8Nwr7pbpVrQ6M

Personally, it’s hard to imagine something like this getting done with the O-line still in shambles, but it’s probably right up there with 3T as biggest need outside of of the o-line.

JC Jackson would be an awesome signing. Dude is a great player. Yes, we need to improve the OL but there is nothing wrong with adding talent at other positions. Thank you for sharing the link!

Edit: Also see if you can sign Gilmore without overpaying.