(03-10-2022, 01:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe they don't want to pay pay interest on a billion dollar loan.

And this is not like a company borrowing money to buy more equipment that produces more income.  This is just borrowing money to defer cap space.  There is not added return on investment.

Keep in mind the Bengals have a stadium lease coming up in a few years.  I guarantee you that Hamilton County voters are a lot more open to spending tax dollars on stadium renovations or even a new stadium than they were a year ago.  They'll be even more open to it if the Bengals win a Lombardi in the next couple of years.  

(03-10-2022, 01:03 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Lots of things the Bengals could do and dont do which is frustrating, they are worth 3B now... we can hope so. Of course to hear Hobson tell it we are poverty stricken.

Hobson has literally never been right when it comes to his spending projections. In fact, he's usually off by a good bit. I have no idea why he keeps doing this every year.

(03-10-2022, 03:09 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Hobson has literally never been right when it comes to his spending projections. In fact, he's usually off by a good bit. I have no idea why he keeps doing this every year.

With no expectations comes little resentment. Lol

(03-09-2022, 10:17 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Ok, so after all the worry about the escrow and the cap I'll provide a sliver of hope that could make the oline only folks and the sign JC Jackson folks happy.  

The last 2 years the Bengals have spent more cash than cap - these are two totally different things.  

I have seen numbers from 70 to 120 million cash under their year-to-year avg spending.  And we dont have much in cash coming off the books this year.  Due to drafting next to last we save a ton on rookie bonus cash. We will be around 6M this year where as Chase received around 20M by himself.

As we all know, tagging Bates hurts us a few million as to cap space. But it actually helps us with cash. Had we extended Bates he most likely would have cost us around $25M in upfront cash bonus money - so we save that.

Since we have this cash, and have spent it the past 2 years, we could lower the guaranteed portion of free agent demands like JC and Jensen by offering large upfront signing bonuses that would be prorated over the term of of the contract with a small balance into next year.  JC wants 56M guaranteed over the life of his contract, we could offer 45M guaranteed with a 25M signing bonus upfront, also lowering his cap hit.

$52M in cap space after cutting Waynes & Hopkins and a minimum of $70m in cash to spend allows us several options and the possibility to keep the escrow account in check for Burrows smash after this season.  

We also have a very easy restructure with Trey Hendrickson that wont impact him and have low impact on us.  He has a 6M roster bonus coming up. We could convert this to a signing bonus (still pays him 6M) freeing up 4M in cap space leaving 2M in dead money.

There are ways to make things happen.

Jensen and another very solid pickup be it guard or tackle will help tremendously. We still need Carmen and another bench guy/rookie to step up most likely, or pickup a cheap vet minimum on Spain again.

JC, Awuzie, Bates, Bell, and Hilton could be the #1 secondary in the NFL.



Andre Perrotta is an excellent source for cap/cash Bengals info.

While I would love to have him in our secondary, this move would prevent 2-3 other signings.  Yes, you could maybe add Jensen, but I would like to see the Bengals find another Chido-level deal in the secondary, and add at least two solid FA signings on the offensive line like Jensen and Daniels. 

I would dangle the first round pick to the Texans for Tunsil as well, but no more than that.  They gave up so much to get him, I doubt they accept but I would take the known with him over a draft pick.  

(03-10-2022, 09:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I would love to have him in our secondary, this move would prevent 2-3 other signings.  Yes, you could maybe add Jensen, but I would like to see the Bengals find another Chido-level deal in the secondary, and add at least two solid FA signings on the offensive line like Jensen and Daniels. 

I would dangle the first round pick to the Texans for Tunsil as well, but no more than that.  They gave up so much to get him, I doubt they accept but I would take the known with him over a draft pick.  

True but 2019 was 3 years ago so Im not sure how much consideration their initial cost will be a factor... Probably not realistic but he is the only big splash at tackle that I see as a possibility since there seems to be no interest in Armstead.  Thin tackle class.

(03-10-2022, 01:06 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Having a billionaire able to dump in cash at anytime is nice to have and allows for teams like the Rams to say the hell with the cap, they know they can get out of it with cash.  Not sure we got it like that. After listening to Hobson my expectations have dropped considerably.

Just published less than a month ago, here's an article on Mike Brown's net worth.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/mike-brown-net-worth-bengals-owner/leltmunxkhzmasiydutejb85

It states in the article that ESPN reported back in 2015 that Mike Brown has a net worth of $925 million. Adjusted for inflation, that number would be $1.09 billion.

So given that he was $925 million 7 years ago, I'm almost certain he's a billionaire at this point.

(03-10-2022, 01:04 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That is not a signing bonus.  That is yearly salary.

I was referring to the signing bonus getting spread out across the duration of the contract for cap purposes, which many teams do with veteran contracts.
I was not referring to the base salary.

(03-10-2022, 01:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe they don't want to pay pay interest on a billion dollar loan.

And this is not like a company borrowing money to buy more equipment that produces more income.  This is just borrowing money to defer cap space.  There is not added return on investment.

Interest rates have been so low the past 5 years many business people went to the bank to borrow money. I have business loans they are less than 2.5% for 10 years, cheap money.

I am not saying they need to borrow a billion dollars, the cap is only $208 million if they borrowed 100%, which they don't need to, my point is the Browns have a ton of equity and the means to pay back any loan. 

Investment in people (players included) is on the rise for salary and benefits, no people (players) equal less income. Also, interest is a tax write off so goes against income which also helps take the sting off of a business lloam.

(03-10-2022, 10:51 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Just published less than a month ago, here's an article on Mike Brown's net worth.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/mike-brown-net-worth-bengals-owner/leltmunxkhzmasiydutejb85

It states in the article that ESPN reported back in 2015 that Mike Brown has a net worth of $925 million. Adjusted for inflation, that number would be $1.09 billion.

So given that he was $925 million 7 years ago, I'm almost certain he's a billionaire at this point.

Bengals should be worth 3B today. But that isnt the point.

What is his net worth minus the team?  Every team has certain amount of resources, but the other billionaire owners have other resources to add to the escrow outside of team revenues allowing them more flexibility to manipulate the cap.

(03-10-2022, 11:25 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Bengals should be worth 3B today. But that isnt the point.

What is his net worth minus the team?  Every team has certain amount of resources, but the other billionaire owners have other resources to add to the escrow outside of team revenues allowing them more flexibility to manipulate the cap.

Well that's the big difference.
Mike Brown inherited the team from his father, and he was a part of the organization before he became owner, so a majority of his life has only been with the Bengals.
Many other teams have owners who got their wealth outside of the NFL prior to purchasing their team.
I believe Bengals are one of the (very?) few franchises whose ownership is still with the original family.

With that said, ownership has the funds necessary if they chose to spend it. They just choose not to.
It's their preferred mode of operation.

(03-10-2022, 11:46 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Well that's the big difference.
Mike Brown inherited the team from his father, and he was a part of the organization before he became owner, so a majority of his life has only been with the Bengals.
Many other teams have owners who got their wealth outside of the NFL prior to purchasing their team.
I believe Bengals are one of the (very?) few franchises whose ownership is still with the original family.

With that said, ownership has the funds necessary if they chose to spend it. They just choose not to.
It's their preferred mode of operation.

Of course the entire first part is true.

But how can you state that we can do what other teams can knowing there are no other funds available like other teams have?  Do you think MB has been hoarding a ton of cash?

The Saints cleared $52M in cap last year on restructures that cost them almost twice that much in cash.  Do you think we actually have a few hundred million in an account to be used to get out of cap hell?  Maybe we do, but it hasnt seemed like it.  The Rams owner can throw 50-100M of his own money in and they rework the cap in one day.

It would be great to see our balance sheet, I think only Green Bay makes theirs public?

We will find out once JoeyB's full base and bonuses start hitting us in a few years.  But I agree we should be ok, I just dont think we will ever be able to push the envelope as much with the cap sd others.

(03-10-2022, 12:10 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Of course the entire first part is true.

But how can you state that we can do what other teams can knowing there are no other funds available like other teams have?  Do you think MB has been hoarding a ton of cash?

The Saints cleared $52M in cap last year on restructures that cost them almost twice that much in cash.  Do you think we actually have a few hundred million in an account to be used to get out of cap hell?  Maybe we do, but it hasnt seemed like it.  The Rams owner can throw 50-100M of his own money in and they rework the cap in one day.

It would be great to see our balance sheet, I think only Green Bay makes theirs public?

We will find out once JoeyB's full base and bonuses start hitting us in a few years.  But I agree we should be ok, I just dont think we will ever be able to push the envelope as much with the cap sd others.

I would assume the bolded is required due to it being owned by the city and not a single entity.

nice breakdown, but after seeing what Rogers got..the Burrow extension is very concerning
But I have to admit having JC , Chido, Hilton, Bates and Bell back there is a great feeling..and if we can keep Apple around I think we are set. Apple getting some bad press but he really did well for us and was reliable and not injured. Who would you rather have off the bench? Apple or Phillips, Hargreaves? Ill take Apple all day.

(03-10-2022, 12:20 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: I would assume the bolded is required due to it being owned by the city and not a single entity.

They are a publicly owned nonprofit but they have individual stock holders.  A stock holder can never make a profit.  That $25 share grandpa bought in 1950 is worth $25 today...

(03-10-2022, 12:27 PM)kalibengal Wrote: nice breakdown, but after seeing what Rogers got..the Burrow extension is very concerning
But I have to admit having JC , Chido, Hilton, Bates and Bell back there is a great feeling..and if we can keep Apple around I think we are set. Apple getting some bad press but he really did well for us and was reliable and not injured. Who would you rather have off the bench? Apple or Phillips, Hargreaves? Ill take Apple all day.

We can extend his contract after this season but also exercise his 5th year option so only his prorated bonus impacts the cap for 2023 & 24.