(03-12-2022, 04:01 PM)casear2727 Wrote: What am I missing?  

Why would the Cowboys want Waynes and Hopkins?  This isnt the NBA with equal salary requirements...

Im very confused with this take....?

Yeah, sounded way too easy lol

(03-12-2022, 04:01 PM)samhain Wrote: Man.  I like the idea of obtaining Collins, but Willie is not just the best Bengals RT of all-time, he's one of THE best RTs of all time.  

Truth. Willie is the man.

(03-12-2022, 03:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like this Pulses. Trade Hop and Waynes for La'el Collins and bring in Ryan Jensen and James Daniels. BOOM.

Also must add that I don't follow cap as well as others and Casear might know better than I do.

I would also trade pick 31 outright for Collins if that is what it takes. Raimann ain't no Collins.

I wouldn't give up a 1st or a 2nd for player that might be cut because they haven't gotten good trade offers to this point.

I wonder how guard would shape up if the Bengals could swing both Collins and Jensen. Playing between those two would make Carman's life easier at RG if it went that way. If he can't get it together playing between two players of that caliber, then he's headed into bust territory real fast.

Paying both Jensen and Collins would be significant, but perhaps a hometown guy like Norwell who's not in the top tier of available guards, but still would be a nice upgrade to Spain, would still be affordable at that point. Given the Bengals history paying OL, I think they'd be more okay with a 10 mil tackle than a 10 or 12 mil guard being added. Good players at both tackle spots and a stud center would probably allow them to continue with that philosophy. It would also allow them to drat Zion Johnson at 31, which I'm a bit more comfortable with than I am with drafting the projected available tackles at that slot.

(03-12-2022, 04:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Some people mentioned it, but he has missed 21 of 33 games the past two seasons.

I think he had a torn ligament in his big toe, which I'm not sure how much that impacts linemen or lingers, but toe/foot injuries are usually career killers for offensive linemen.

If the Cowboys release him, I can see maybe signing him, but I'm not sure how much I'd want to give up to get him.

The drug test thing was apparently just for weed, which who cares, but you gotta be smarter than that.

Then again, he is a pretty damn good tackle and we need offensive linemen,

His major injury was his hip which he could have played on and repaired after the season, but he chose to fix it immediately missing the entire season. The suspension occurred while he was out with this injury and then implemented upon his return.



Not sure the disconnect with people thinking that signing him after release is a better deal than trading a draft pick...?

He would cost a huge signing bonus, huge salary cap hit, huge guaranteed money.


For those who dont want to give up up "too much"... can anyone please tell me why you wouldnt do this:

Our 1st Round pick straight up for Collins


This is worst case scenario, and wouldnt happen, but I'd like to hear an argument against it.

(03-12-2022, 04:08 PM)pulses Wrote: I wouldn't give up a 1st or a 2nd  for player that might be cut because they haven't gotten good trade offers to this point.

If we trade for Collins he isn't getting cut, what do you mean?

Cutting Hop and Waynes would be for cap reasons and replacing them with better players.

There isn't a RT in this Draft, let alone at 31 that would be better than La'el Collins.

(03-12-2022, 04:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, sounded way too easy lol


Truth. Willie is the man.

Yahoo reported Collins was on the hook for 15.25 million this year and they want cap space....if we give them those 2 we were prob gonna cut anyways and a draft pick....who knows maybe they keep hopkins and let connor williams walk plus they get a pick.

(03-12-2022, 04:09 PM)samhain Wrote: I wonder how guard would shape up if the Bengals could swing both Collins and Jensen.  Playing between those two would make Carman's life easier at RG if it went that way.  If he can't get it together playing between two players of that caliber, then he's headed into bust territory real fast.

Paying both Jensen and Collins would be significant, but perhaps a hometown guy like Norwell who's not in the top tier of available guards, but still would be a nice upgrade to Spain, would still be affordable at that point.  Given the Bengals history paying OL, I think they'd be more okay with a 10 mil tackle than a 10 or 12 mil guard being added.  Good players at both tackle spots and a stud center would probably allow them to continue with that philosophy.  It would also allow them to drat Zion Johnson at 31, which I'm a bit more comfortable with than I am with drafting the projected available tackles at that slot.

I think this is the absolute best plan. Jensen, Collins and Norwell on a home town discount would be a great upgrade.

(03-12-2022, 04:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If we trade for Collins he isn't getting cut, what do you mean?

Cutting Hop and Waynes would be for cap reasons and replacing them with better players.

There isn't a RT in this Draft, let alone at 31 that would be better than La'el Collins.

WE have not traded for him YET....you're missing the point.

(03-12-2022, 04:08 PM)pulses Wrote: I wouldn't give up a 1st or a 2nd  for player that might be cut because they haven't gotten good trade offers to this point.

Ok, why wouldnt you give a 1st for Collins and his current contract?

(03-12-2022, 04:10 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think this is the absolute best plan. Jensen, Collins and Norwell on a home town discount would be a great upgrade.

Not interested in Norwell he has declined every year like the last 4 years no thanks.

Browns got Cooper for late round picks. There is no reason to believe we can’t get Collins for something similar.

(03-12-2022, 04:10 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think this is the absolute best plan. Jensen, Collins and Norwell on a home town discount would be a great upgrade.

I wouldn't be pissed at all.  It would free them up to take something other than a tackle at 31, which I think is big.  If you get Zion there, you're done some serious work on the line this offseason, plus made an investment in the future with a IOL on a rookie deal.  Or you get a guy like Dax Hill to hedge vs Bates' eventual exit when his agent tries to pump the organization for an 18 mil per deal.

I'd be over the moon if they could get those 3 in trade/fa, draft Hill, then get Salyer in the 2nd.

(03-12-2022, 04:11 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Ok, why wouldnt you give a 1st for Collins and his current contract?

It's been mentioned 50 times already with his concerns he is not worth a 1st.....if he was he would have already been traded....

(03-12-2022, 04:11 PM)pulses Wrote: Not interested in Norwell he has declined every year like the last 4 years no thanks.

He has declined and is yet much better in pass blocking than Spain.  Multiple 22-film sessions on this.

(03-12-2022, 04:12 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Browns got Cooper for late round picks. There is no reason to believe we can’t get Collins for something similar.

No doubt, Im just trying to make a point with a worst case scenario.

(03-12-2022, 04:14 PM)samhain Wrote: I wouldn't be pissed at all.  It would free them up to take something other than a tackle at 31, which I think is big.  If you get Zion there, you're done some serious work on the line this offseason, plus made an investment in the future with a IOL on a rookie deal.  Or you get a guy like Dax Hill to hedge vs Bates' eventual exit when his agent tries to pump the organization for an 18 mil per deal.

I'd be over the moon if they could get those 3 in trade/fa, draft Hill, then get Salyer in the 2nd.

That would be insanely great!

(03-12-2022, 04:15 PM)pulses Wrote: It's been mentioned 50 times already with his concerns he is not worth a 1st.....if he was he would have already been traded....

Ok, so he had an injury 2 years ago.

He mislead someone inquiring as to why missed 7 drug tests out 187 (its known he had smoked weed) but also had a couple legitimate misses.


Dont be upset with me let's just talk through this.


What player that would be available at 31 or later would make a bigger impact this season and next than the top RT in the league?

Why would we want to sign a lesser RT in FA that would cost us more cap and use up cash we could use for other free agents?

How could we ever get a better deal than zero signing bonus, zero guaranteed dollars, cap hit of only 10M, and on contract for 3 years (our SB window) for the highest tier tackle?

(03-12-2022, 04:23 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Ok, so he had an injury 2 years ago.

He mislead someone inquiring as to why missed 7 drug tests out 187 (its known he had smoked weed) but also had a couple legitimate misses.


Dont be upset with me let's just talk through this.


What player that would be available at 31 or later would make a bigger impact this season and next than the top RT in the league?

Why would we want to sign a lesser RT in FA that would cost us more cap and use up cash we could use for other free agents?

How could we ever get a better deal than zero signing bonus, zero guaranteed dollars, cap hit of only 10M, and on contract for 3 years (our SB window) for the highest tier tackle?

Honestly, I wouldn't give a first either.  I also doubt we would need to.  Browns just got Cooper for peanuts from Dallas.  Jerry is bailing contracts.  We might not get Collins for a 5th and 6th, but I'd offer a 3rd or 4th and see if that dog hunts.  If they are contemplating releasing him, then they might have to take what they can get.  

The monkey wrench in this thinking is that OL are in high demand, so maybe Collins has teams competing for his services.  

(03-12-2022, 04:10 PM)pulses Wrote: Yahoo reported Collins was on the hook for 15.25 million this year and they want cap space....if we give them those 2 we were prob gonna cut anyways and a draft pick....who knows maybe they keep hopkins and let connor williams walk plus they get a pick.

Cap space this year isnt a major concern. Hopkins and Waynes makes zero sense - Waynes couldn't play for us, Hopkins isn't good enough at his price for us..... this is so insane to think the Cowboys with their secondary and oline would even consider this...  this makes below zero sense... i truly dont get how they factor in this deal whatsoever.  With all due respect it is a very very odd take. 

Cowboys have already decided to let Williams walk.

The will get a pick for Collins with a trade and possibly a lower comp pick with a cut.

(03-12-2022, 04:17 PM)casear2727 Wrote: He has declined and is yet much better in pass blocking than Spain.  Multiple 22-film sessions on this.

Spain needs to be depth at this point. Lots of other guys better than Norwell too. And that's what we want/need.