(03-12-2022, 04:23 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Ok, so he had an injury 2 years ago.

He mislead someone inquiring as to why missed 7 drug tests out 187 (its known he had smoked weed) but also had a couple legitimate misses.


Dont be upset with me let's just talk through this.


What player that would be available at 31 or later would make a bigger impact this season and next than the top RT in the league?

Why would we want to sign a lesser RT in FA that would cost us more cap and use up cash we could use for other free agents?

How could we ever get a better deal than zero signing bonus, zero guaranteed dollars, cap hit of only 10M, and on contract for 3 years (our SB window) for the highest tier tackle?

It’s the financials of this deal that make too much sense

(03-12-2022, 04:29 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Cap space this year isnt a major concern. Hopkins and Waynes makes zero sense - Waynes couldn't play for us, Hopkins isn't good enough at his price for us..... this is so insane to think the Cowboys with their secondary and oline would even consider this...  this makes below zero sense... i truly dont get how they factor in this deal whatsoever.  With all due respect it is a very very odd take. 

Cowboys have already decided to let Williams walk.

The will get a pick for Collins with a trade and possibly a lower comp pick with a cut.

Well however you wanna look at it they aren't getting a 1st or a 2nd anytime soon for him. If so he would have already been gone!!

(03-12-2022, 04:10 PM)pulses Wrote: Yahoo reported Collins was on the hook for 15.25 million this year and they want cap space....if we give them those 2 we were prob gonna cut anyways and a draft pick....who knows maybe they keep hopkins and let connor williams walk plus they get a pick.

That would be ideal if the Cowboys would be down and this frees them up cap space in the process I guess this would make 
sense. Frederick retired and I doubt their Center is near that good so Hop would have a chance to start especially if Connor 
walks to boot. Bring in both of them.

Collins in a trade and Connor Williams in FA, excellent trade lol

(03-12-2022, 04:11 PM)pulses Wrote: WE have not traded for him YET....you're missing the point.

Well yeah, I want them to trade for Collins though. That is my point.

(03-12-2022, 04:23 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Ok, so he had an injury 2 years ago.

He mislead someone inquiring as to why missed 7 drug tests out 187 (its known he had smoked weed) but also had a couple legitimate misses.


Dont be upset with me let's just talk through this.


What player that would be available at 31 or later would make a bigger impact this season and next than the top RT in the league?

Why would we want to sign a lesser RT in FA that would cost us more cap and use up cash we could use for other free agents?

How could we ever get a better deal than zero signing bonus, zero guaranteed dollars, cap hit of only 10M, and on contract for 3 years (our SB window) for the highest tier tackle?

We've discussed it and I'm telling you they're not getting a 1st or 2nd for him from ANYONE....not gonna happen.

(03-12-2022, 04:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That would be ideal if the Cowboys would be down and this frees them up cap space in the process I guess this would make 
sense. Frederick retired and I doubt their Center is near that good so Hop would have a chance to start especially if Connor 
walks to boot. Bring in both of them.

Collins in a trade and Connor Williams in FA, excellent trade lol


Well yeah, I want them to trade for Collins though. That is my point.

Getting him for a day 3 pick and a swap yes....but a 1st or 2nd or 3rd rd pick.....NO

(03-12-2022, 04:34 PM)pulses Wrote: Getting him for a day 3 pick and a swap yes....but a 1st or 2nd or 3rd rd pick.....NO

Why? He is better than anyone we would Draft and it isn't even close...

(03-12-2022, 04:28 PM)samhain Wrote: Honestly, I wouldn't give a first either.  I also doubt we would need to.  Browns just got Cooper for peanuts from Dallas.  Jerry is bailing contracts.  We might not get Collins for a 5th and 6th, but I'd offer a 3rd or 4th and see if that dog hunts.  If they are contemplating releasing him, then they might have to take what they can get.  

The monkey wrench in this thinking is that OL are in high demand, so maybe Collins has teams competing for his services.  

We know teams are competing, over a dozen are involved.

We are talking about the #1 RT in the league and our franchise QB with destroyed knees.


It wont take a 1st but this thought process by Bengal fans, of all fanbases after what we witnessed all season, to be willing to just toss a 5th or 6th seems so crazy to me.


Not only he is a top RT, better than any blocker we have had in years, he doesnt get paid until he plays a game. No signing bonus - so money we would have used on T Brown or Moses - say 10M signing bonuses we can use on G or CB.  Collins cap hit is only 10M for 3 years and he is only 28.  He has zero guaranteed money so we can cut him at any time but also has no negative impact on Joe B's upcoming extension like anyone else we would sign.

Draft picks are risks. Not vets that excel several tiers above what we currently have.  BTW - we are the absolute worst in the NFL at drafting oline this past decade.

I just dont get it, this is our "window" and the terms couldn't be better.

(03-12-2022, 04:29 PM)pulses Wrote: Spain needs to be depth at this point. Lots of other guys better than Norwell too. And that's what we want/need.

I agree with this, but the Bengals dont pay for guards - that is the issue.

(03-12-2022, 04:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Why? He is better than anyone we would Draft and it isn't even close...

You never give up high draft capital if you don't have to.  Number 2 obviously nobody else is offering it hence why they have him seeking a trade....it's been known for 2 or 3 weeks they were gonna get rid of Cooper and look what they got.....their is a reason we are not in the front office for these teams.

(03-12-2022, 04:36 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I agree with this, but the Bengals dont pay for guards - that is the issue.

It's been that way in the PAST....from what we are hearing that is about change and we'll see. If they can't sign a LG they will start Carman and see what they have and sign a RG/C/RT   2 of those 3 IMO.

(03-12-2022, 04:34 PM)pulses Wrote: Getting him for a day 3 pick and a swap yes....but a 1st or 2nd or 3rd rd pick.....NO

What player is better than Collins at #31 or after?


Btw, the talk of a a trade with the Bengals for our #31 has looked like this:

Dallas gets bengals 1st at (#31)

Bengals get Collins and Dallas #2 (56) and Dallas 5th or 6th round pick.

So we end up with the best RT in he game, 2 2nd round picks and 2 5th or 6th rounders.


But please tell us what player is better than Collins at #31 or after?

(03-12-2022, 04:39 PM)pulses Wrote: It's been that way in the PAST....from what we are hearing that is about change and we'll see. If they can't sign a LG they will start Carman and see what they have and sign a RG/C/RT   2 of those 3 IMO.

Thats the entire past up until 5 minutes ago. Still no change. The only Guards we have signed were vet minimums.  They want to Carmen to start, it sounds like they want Smith to start too. Its not my fault they dont value guards, they didnt value RT forever either... listen to some Willie stories.

But please answer the question, which player is better than Collins at #31 or after?

(03-12-2022, 04:40 PM)casear2727 Wrote: What player is better than Collins at #31 or after?


Btw, the talk of a a trade with the Bengals for our #31 has looked like this:

Dallas gets bengals 1st at (#31)

Bengals get Collins and Dallas #2 (56) and Dallas 5th or 6th round pick.

So we end up with the best RT in he game, 2 2nd round picks and 2 5th or 6th rounders.


But please tell us what player is better than Collins at #31 or after?

We would make bank if we did this IMO.

Well worth it for both sides too.

(03-12-2022, 04:42 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Thats the entire past. Only Guards we have signed were vet minimums.  They want to Carmen to start, it sounds like they want Smith to start too. Its not my fault they dont value guards, they didnt value RT forever either... listen to some Willie stories.

But please answer the question, which player is better than Collins at #31 or after

He's not worth a 1st round pick....I don;t care how you wanna twist it!

(03-12-2022, 03:08 PM)casear2727 Wrote: He had one injury that he chose to have surgery and miss games.

He had the one suspension over missed drug tests.

Im waiting for someone to tell me why we shouldn't give our 1st round pick for Collins (worst case scenario which most likely be the cost).

Well they just traded Amari Cooper to the Browns for a 5th and swap of 6th Rd picks. It sounds like they are gonna release him if they can't work out a trade so the price should be pretty low.

(03-12-2022, 04:37 PM)pulses Wrote: You never give up high draft capital if you don't have to.  Number 2 obviously nobody else is offering it hence why they have him seeking a trade....it's been known for 2 or 3 weeks they were gonna get rid of Cooper and look what they got.....their is a reason we are not in the front office for these teams.

Cooper was had for peanuts because of his expensive contract.  Collins contract is a steal for what he offers (top tier RT) at our area of need.  You won't find that value (top tier RT) with any of our coming draft picks.

(03-12-2022, 04:44 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well they just traded Amari Cooper to the Browns for a 5th and swap of 6th Rd picks. It sounds like they are gonna release him if they can't work out a trade so the price should be pretty low.

Zero correlation in my opinion.


RT > WR

Collins 10M cap hit each year > Cooper 20M cap hit each year

Collins zero guaranteed > Cooper 20M guaranteed

(03-12-2022, 04:45 PM)Yogo Wrote: Cooper was had for peanuts because of his expensive contract.  Collins contract is a steal for what he offers (top tier RT) at our area of need.  You won't find that value (top tier RT) with any of our coming draft picks.

Truth. Well said Yogo. Make the trade, I don't care if it costs us our first round pick. 

He is better than anyone we will draft for our needs

(03-12-2022, 04:44 PM)pulses Wrote: He's not worth a 1st round pick....I don;t care how you wanna twist it!

So you cant name any player in the draft at #31 or later better than Collins? 

Of course you cant.  You didnt know if he was healthy this season. You didnt know how he played?  You had no idea of his past injury or suspension. You had no idea of his insanely awesome contract that helps us get other free agents.


You just spew an uninformed opinion.  

You have zero argument other than you just dont like or want the guy ... 

I wont debate you for just not wanting the guy.

Browns just gave up a 5th for amari Cooper. I wonder if all it would take is our 4th to get Collins? They honestly may cut him after June.