(03-11-2022, 02:32 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think we have to be careful not to get in Tunsil territory unless we are getting Tunsil.

Collins is a RT so he shouldn't get LT trade compensation. I say no higher than a 3rd

Collins should get less than the Orlando Brown deal due to that LT vs RT and his flags.

But again what player at #31 or later is better for the Bengals immediate future?

(03-12-2022, 04:51 PM)casear2727 Wrote: So you cant name any player in the draft at #31 or later better than Collins? 

Of course you cant.  You didnt know if he was healthy this season. You didnt know how he played?  You had no idea of his past injury or suspension. You had no idea of his insanely awesome contract that helps us get other free agents.


You just spew an uninformed opinion.  

You have zero argument other than you just dont like or want the guy ... 

I wont debate you for just not wanting the guy.

I like Pulses but I find his argument to be absurd to say the least.

Just cause Collins hasn't been traded for an early pick yet doesn't mean he isn't worth it.

I would challenge anyone to name a better player in this draft than La'el Collins for our needs.

Starting with even the #1 OT in the class. The Draft is a crapshoot and we don't know if the best OT in the class will bust.

(03-12-2022, 04:55 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Browns just gave up a 5th for amari Cooper. I wonder if all it would take is our 4th to get Collins? They honestly may cut him after June.

They get nothing but some cash in June, which they are swimming in.  June 1st is being touted to up the price according to most.  Dallas wants  better than a compensation pick.  

Cooper deal is irrelevant for multiple reasons.

(03-12-2022, 04:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like Pulses but I find his argument to be absurd to say the least.

Just cause Collins hasn't been traded for an early pick yet doesn't mean he isn't worth it.

I would challenge anyone to name a better player in this draft than La'el Collins for our needs.

Starting with even the #1 OT in the class. The Draft is a crapshoot and we don't know if the best OT in the class will bust.

I like the guy too, but its clear he hasnt looked into it.

We have both asked that question multiple times and not one answer.

People dont realize the impact he has outside of protecting Burrow.  His contract enables us to do more in FA this year, and honestly the next 2 years with his low cap hit. We can cut him at anytime if there is a problem.

(03-12-2022, 05:01 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I like the guy too, but its clear he hasnt looked into it.

We have both asked that question multiple times and not one answer.

People dont realize the impact he has outside of protecting Burrow.  His contract enables us to do more in FA this year, and honestly the next 2 years with his low cap hit. We can cut him at anytime if there is a problem.

No doubt. Bring in Collins any way we can, I don't care about the details. Then bring in a Center like Ryan Jensen and a G/C
like James Daniels and we did an amazing job in FA and everyone would be happy. The Draft would be freed up to do whatever.

(03-12-2022, 04:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: They get nothing but some cash in June, which they are swimming in.  June 1st is being touted to up the price according to most.  Dallas wants  better than a compensation pick.  

Cooper deal is irrelevant for multiple reasons.

I wouldn’t say it’s irrelevant. It shows how he cowboys want to add draft capital and it also shows they don’t have crazy high demands. They accepted a 5th for a pro bowl receiver.

(03-12-2022, 04:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like Pulses but I find his argument to be absurd to say the least.

Just cause Collins hasn't been traded for an early pick yet doesn't mean he isn't worth it.

I would challenge anyone to name a better player in this draft than La'el Collins for our needs.

Starting with even the #1 OT in the class. The Draft is a crapshoot and we don't know if the best OT in the class will bust.

And If we hypothetically go all in and spend draft capital for EVAN NEAL LT from BAMA in our unicorn hypothetical world..... if he really is the best Olineman in the draft, it's just as or even more of a risk than grabbing Collins.  Nick Saban himself said that his Oline this year was the worst he's ever had.... that's with Evan on it.

(03-12-2022, 05:05 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I wouldn’t say it’s irrelevant. It shows how he cowboys want to add draft capital and it also shows they don’t have crazy high demands. They accepted a 5th for a pro bowl receiver.

And it shows either bad cap management or just having too much shiny.

(03-12-2022, 05:12 PM)Yogo Wrote: And If we hypothetically go all in and spend draft capital for EVAN NEAL LT from BAMA in our unicorn hypothetical world..... if he really is the best Olineman in the draft, it's just as or even more of a risk than grabbing Collins.  Nick Saban himself said that his Oline this year was the worst he's ever had.... that's with Evan on it.

More truth. I honestly would be a little ticked if we didn't trade for Collins now lol

(03-12-2022, 04:42 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Thats the entire past up until 5 minutes ago. Still no change.  The only Guards we have signed were vet minimums.  They want to Carmen to start, it sounds like they want Smith to start too. Its not my fault they dont value guards, they didnt value RT forever either... listen to some Willie stories.

But please answer the question, which player is better than Collins at #31 or after?

It's not about pick 31 being better. It's about what's equitable draft capital when factoring in the risks that come along with Collins. When you look at the incredibly bad decision making he's demonstrated, and the reality that he's one bad decision away from another suspension at any time...it takes the 1st and 2nd round picks off the table, IMO.

(03-12-2022, 02:31 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Don't you put that evil on us Millhouse.

(03-12-2022, 05:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's not about pick 31 being better. It's about what's equitable draft capital when factoring in the risks that come along with Collins. When you look at the incredibly bad decision making he's demonstrated, and the reality that he's one bad decision away from another suspension at any time...it takes the 1st and 2nd round picks off the table, IMO.

Definitely

(03-12-2022, 05:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's not about pick 31 being better. It's about what's equitable draft capital when factoring in the risks that come along with Collins. When you look at the incredibly bad decision making he's demonstrated, and the reality that he's one bad decision away from another suspension at any time...it takes the 1st and 2nd round picks off the table, IMO.

Okay, I can understand this Holic. Offer the Cowboys a 3rd than for him lol

(03-12-2022, 05:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's not about pick 31 being better. It's about what's equitable draft capital when factoring in the risks that come along with Collins. When you look at the incredibly bad decision making he's demonstrated, and the reality that he's one bad decision away from another suspension at any time...it takes the 1st and 2nd round picks off the table, IMO.

This is valid for some.  But "incredibly bad decisions"?  From us?  The guy missed 7 drug tests out 187.  He had legitimate excuses for 2 misses, so that is 5 (pretty sure he smoked weed). And when questioned he lied/tried to bribe the person questioning in order to let him skate....

We have had some absolute idiots on this team.... this was one of those things that was wrong, that he made worse trying to get out of it. So lets not get carried away.

Again, lets say worst case scenario - we give #31 straight up for Collins and his awesome contract allows us to get a guard along with Jensen or a much better CB and during his 3 years at 10M he is suspended what did we really lose?

I cant find one guy at #31 who would help us more immediately these next 3 seasons than Collins and his contract which brings other vet FAs into the fold.



Again, our #31 for the best RT in the league, along with Cowboys 2nd round (56) and 5th or 6th round pick is the deal mentioned when discussing our #31 - this is an absolute steal in my opinion.

Unless someone can tell me who in the draft would be better at #31 or later?

(03-12-2022, 05:05 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I wouldn’t say it’s irrelevant. It shows how he cowboys want to add draft capital and it also shows they don’t have crazy high demands. They accepted a 5th for a pro bowl receiver.

Cooper isnt really a good gage for Collins in my opinion.

RT > WR
Collins 10M > Cooper 20M cap hit
Collins zero > Cooper 20M guaranteed money

Collins frees up 8-10M minimum in cash we would offer another tackle in free agency we can use to sign another player.
Collins low salary frees up cap space for 3 years.
We can cut Collins at any time without any dead money.

(03-12-2022, 05:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Okay, I can understand this Holic. Offer the Cowboys a 3rd than for him lol

If they would take a 3rd, and maybe a conditional next year, I think that would be a much safer risk for the Bengals to take. Or maybe even something that involved trading picks 63 and 88. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't involve the first 2 picks at all.

They won't make the trade. He doesn't fit the culture. Bad attitudes need not apply.

(03-12-2022, 05:40 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: If they would take a 3rd, and maybe a conditional next year, I think that would be a much safer risk for the Bengals to take. Or maybe even something that involved trading picks 63 and 88. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't involve the first 2 picks at all.

I respect your takes, so dont take this in any other way...

What players at #31 or later do you believe can impact the Bengals immediately more so than Collins?

What risk are you fearing with Collins?


I simply push this #31 straight up deal, because if you get this premise every other realistic trade is a home run and makes all the sense in the world in my opinion.

Thanks in advance.

I dont think I mentioned this previously, but those correctly stating the Cowboys save more money this year dealing Collins after June 1st might want to consider 2 things.

Im not sure a trade with draft picks in April can be pushed to June 1 and the Cowboys want a draft pick.

If Collins is released in any way prior to June 1st the Cowboys eat some cash, but have zero dead money in 2023, any move after June 1 and they still have the dead money on the books next year.

Just food for thought.

(03-12-2022, 05:34 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is valid for some.  But "incredibly bad decisions"?  From us?  The guy missed 7 drug tests out 187.  He had legitimate excuses for 2 misses, so that is 5 (pretty sure he smoked weed). And when questioned he lied/tried to bribe the person questioning in order to let him skate....

We have had some absolute idiots on this team.... this was one of those things that was wrong, that he made worse trying to get out of it. So lets not get carried away.

Again, lets say worst case scenario - we give #31 straight up for Collins and his awesome contract allows us to get a guard along with Jensen or a much better CB and during his 3 years at 10M he is suspended what did we really lose?

I cant find one guy at #31 who would help us more immediately these next 3 seasons than Collins and his contract which brings other vet FAs into the fold.



Again, our #31 for the best RT in the league, along with Cowboys 2nd round (56) and 5th or 6th round pick is the deal mentioned when discussing our #31 - this is an absolute steal in my opinion.

Unless someone can tell me who in the draft would be better at #31 or later?

I'm trying to be respectful here, but you've got such a throbbing boner for Collins right now, that it's impossible to talk with you about it. You keep repeating the same talking points over and over and over, while also ignoring anything that doesn't fit into you're way of thinking about it. At least, that's how you're coming off.

I tried to give you a perspective on why some aren't cool with giving up a high pick for him, and you just regurgitated things you've already said 50 other times. 

(03-12-2022, 05:41 PM)BengalBob Wrote: They won't make the trade. He doesn't fit the culture. Bad attitudes need not apply.

Intersting....

Zac specifically said at the combine recently that hte locker room is now strong enough to handle a player that could go one way or the other...

Also, Pollack coached Collins, knows him, the entire public is aware of his issues which are minor compared to others in this league thus we are can be sure the front office are aware of much more than us, yet we were reported to be one of the first teams to inquire about Collins.

Why do you think the Bengals did this knowing what they knew if there was zero interest?

I'd take a bad attitude at every position on the oline if they were the best at their position to protect Burrow and open holes for Mixon. We have this in Collins.