Jungle Noise is salty that A.J. Green is "immune to criticism" while people are lining up to criticize him, seems legit. Good call on that immunity, guys.

Jeremy Hill gets picked on just as infrequently as A.J. Green does (he's also a part of this article for those that felt the need to ignore him), I wonder why people aren't crying about the "Hill-God". Just kidding, I know exactly why.

(06-05-2015, 08:40 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Jungle Noise is salty that A.J. Green is "immune to criticism" while people are lining up to criticize him, seems legit. Good call on that immunity, guys.

Jeremy Hill gets picked on just as infrequently as A.J. Green does (he's also a part of this article for those that felt the need to ignore him), I wonder why people aren't crying about the "Hill-God". Just kidding, I know exactly why.

Did you miss the reaction over even minor critiques on Green?

No one gets mad if you point out Hill needs to protect the ball more.  He does. He fumbled way too often last year. 
There's also a few other nuances to his game that could be pointed out. But no one gets mad if you do.

You mention how AJ has disappeared like everyone else in the playoffs or how he hasn't won the jump ball like he used to, and you are being "pissy"

(06-05-2015, 11:45 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Did you miss the reaction over even minor critiques on Green?

No one gets mad if you point out Hill needs to protect the ball more.  He does. He fumbled way too often last year. 
There's also a few other nuances to his game that could be pointed out. But no one gets mad if you do.

You mention how AJ has disappeared like everyone else in the playoffs or how he hasn't won the jump ball like he used to, and you are being "pissy"

I wish we had archives from the old board so we could re-visit the Hill threads. Some people got plenty mad if you bring up any issues with Hill's game, but no one got crazy calling him "Hill-God" and "Lord Hill", or whatever other cute nicknames you like to toss around. But hey, I guess it only applies in certain circumstances.

The thing with A.J., as it's been pointed out, the QB is directly responsible for getting the ball to him and it comes down to the chicken or the egg thing yet again. If everybody acknowledges the QB played horribly in these games, how good do you expect the WRs numbers to be? We've had what, 1 WR with good numbers in a playoff game, and some people insist that they were "padded", so make that 0 WRs with good numbers if you believe that part as well.

It would be like watching an offensive line completely collapse against run defense but then bash the RB for not having flashy numbers and winning the game on their own. Most rationale people would probably give the line more blame in that scenario. So in this case, it comes down to whether you believe the guy throwing the ball would have an effect on the guy trying to catch the ball. Hah, bunch of dopes, thinking that miserable QB play could have negative impact on WR statistics.

(06-05-2015, 12:02 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I wish we had archives from the old board so we could re-visit the Hill threads. Some people got plenty mad if you bring up any issues with Hill's game, but no one got crazy calling him "Hill-God" and "Lord Hill", or whatever other cute nicknames you like to toss around. But hey, I guess it only applies in certain circumstances.

The thing with A.J., as it's been pointed out, the QB is directly responsible for getting the ball to him and it comes down to the chicken or the egg thing yet again. If everybody acknowledges the QB played horribly in these games, how good do you expect the WRs numbers to be? We've had what, 1 WR with good numbers in a playoff game, and some people insist that they were "padded", so make that 0 WRs with good numbers if you believe that part as well.

It would be like watching an offensive line completely collapse against run defense but then bash the RB for not having flashy numbers and winning the game on their own. Most rationale people would probably give the line more blame in that scenario. So in this case, it comes down to whether you believe the guy throwing the ball would have an effect on the guy trying to catch the ball. Hah, bunch of dopes, thinking that miserable QB play could have negative impact on WR statistics.

And that has been debunked. All but 12 of Jones' yards came down less than 2 TDs with plenty of time left. Now if someone chooses to believe that's padding stats down 10....idk what to say to that. 

Generally people get mad when you criticize any Bengal player but they don't turn it into saying you are defending Dalton like they do with Green. If it is a criticism of Green, the problem isn't AJ it is Dalton. The problem is never actually AJ, it's always somehow Andy's fault.

At some point you have to separate the two to evaluate them. 

I've been one of Hill's biggest fans from day 1, and I have no problem with criticizing parts of his game. I just think he's clearly a better runner than Gio and should get the bulk of the carries. He needs to clean up the fumbles though and I do worry about his mouth a little bit.

I don't think Hill is one of those players who is "above criticism" yet. AJ is certainly there with most of the fanbase. Leon was there until recently. Palmer used to have that status for several years.

(06-05-2015, 12:02 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I wish we had archives from the old board so we could re-visit the Hill threads. Some people got plenty mad if you bring up any issues with Hill's game, but no one got crazy calling him "Hill-God" and "Lord Hill", or whatever other cute nicknames you like to toss around. But hey, I guess it only applies in certain circumstances.

The thing with A.J., as it's been pointed out, the QB is directly responsible for getting the ball to him and it comes down to the chicken or the egg thing yet again. If everybody acknowledges the QB played horribly in these games, how good do you expect the WRs numbers to be? We've had what, 1 WR with good numbers in a playoff game, and some people insist that they were "padded", so make that 0 WRs with good numbers if you believe that part as well.

It would be like watching an offensive line completely collapse against run defense but then bash the RB for not having flashy numbers and winning the game on their own. Most rationale people would probably give the line more blame in that scenario. So in this case, it comes down to whether you believe the guy throwing the ball would have an effect on the guy trying to catch the ball. Hah, bunch of dopes, thinking that miserable QB play could have negative impact on WR statistics.

No QB puts the ball right on the money every time. Sometimes a receiver has to "make a play" on his own. 

But, there have been several instances where the ball was there and it was Green's fault it wasn't completed.

(06-05-2015, 03:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No QB puts the ball right on the money every time. Sometimes a receiver has to "make a play" on his own. 

But, there have been several instances where the ball was there and it was Green's fault it wasn't completed.

And no receiver catches every single pass that gets near him. No one with 100+ targets per year makes every catch and they can't make crazy plays on every poor throw.

It works both ways. Some people want to nitpick A.J. but let others off the hook. A.J. is better at his position more so than everyone else on the Bengals roster can say about their respective position other than Whit.

It's the same reason that Aaron Rodgers doesn't get heckled often by Packers' fans, DeMarco Murray doesn't get bashed by Cowboys' fans, and Antonio Brown doesn't get nitpicked by Steelers' fans.

Meh, I've never said that A.J. is perfect, and I can't really recall anybody saying that. A lot of us just think it's silly to spend time nitpicking one of our best players when there are plenty of mediocre or worse guys on this team. I'd take this crazy guess and say that A.J. probably doesn't have much to do with us being 0-4 in the WC round in the past 4 years. I could name a few other guys that have had a bigger impact on those losses.

(06-05-2015, 03:47 PM)djs7685 Wrote: And no receiver catches every single pass that gets near him. No one with 100+ targets per year makes every catch and they can't make crazy plays on every poor throw.

It works both ways. Some people want to nitpick A.J. but let others off the hook. A.J. is better at his position more so than everyone else on the Bengals roster can say about their respective position other than Whit.

It's the same reason that Aaron Rodgers doesn't get heckled often by Packers' fans, DeMarco Murray doesn't get bashed by Cowboys' fans, and Antonio Brown doesn't get nitpicked by Steelers' fans.

Meh, I've never said that A.J. is perfect, and I can't really recall anybody saying that. A lot of us just think it's silly to spend time nitpicking one of our best players when there are plenty of mediocre or worse guys on this team. I'd take this crazy guess and say that A.J. probably doesn't have much to do with us being 0-4 in the WC round in the past 4 years. I could name a few other guys that have had a bigger impact on those losses.

Yes, it works both ways. I just don't call it nitpicking when i raise a criticism, whether it be at Dalton, Hill or Green. 

I think you touched on the biggest part of the issue. Probably, since we could all find bigger scapegoats than AJ, some choose to give him a pass. He is the closest, if not already, to being elite at his position, with Geno being injured and not back to form yet.

(06-04-2015, 08:40 PM)J24 Wrote: Has a Qb with a 43-20 record ever been this scrutinized in the history of the NFL? They put Cam, Stafford, and  Bradford ahead of him. This list is a joke!

Yeah, i agree. I might put Stafford ahead of him but Cam and Bradford...

This is some Andy Dalton hate going on in this ranking no question. He isn't that bad.

Sure he had a bad year last year but there were a lot of injuries, a new OC and a new mindset.

Let the dude play his game.

AJ is a top 5 WR, Hill in my opinion is a top 5 RB, AD is a middle ranked QB and way above average
when you put all of his years together. One bad year does not make the man. I would say we should
be ranked around 10 or so myself all this considering.

(06-05-2015, 03:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, i agree. I might put Stafford ahead of him but Cam and Bradford...

This is some Andy Dalton hate going on in this ranking no question. He isn't that bad.

Sure he had a bad year last year but there were a lot of injuries, a new OC and a new mindset.

Let the dude play his game.

AJ is a top 5 WR, Hill in my opinion is a top 5 RB, AD is a middle ranked QB and way above average
when you put all of his years together. One bad year does not make the man. I would say we should
be ranked around 10 or so myself all this considering.

I was all for him being in the 10-12 range when his weapons are healthy. But you can not ignore how small he's been in post season and playoff games. That is a really big knock against him until/if he's able to change it. 

(06-05-2015, 03:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I was all for him being in the 10-12 range when his weapons are healthy. But you can not ignore how small he's been in post season and playoff games. That is a really big knock against him until/if he's able to change it. 

I agree with that.

(06-05-2015, 03:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yes, it works both ways. I just don't call it nitpicking when i raise a criticism, whether it be at Dalton, Hill or Green. 

I think you touched on the biggest part of the issue. Probably, since we could all find bigger scapegoats than AJ, some choose to give him a pass. He is the closest, if not already, to being elite at his position, with Geno being injured and not back to form yet.

The only reason I call it nitpicking is because what is going to happen if A.J. gets a little bit better? Probably not a whole lot. Whether people want to realize it or not, A.J. isn't a big, physically dominating WR. He's just not. He's more of a finesse guy at the end of the day. So that already rules out him becoming Calvin Johnson 2.0, and people need to get over that ever happening, it's not A.J.'s style and it's never going to be.

Sure, he COULD be better, but it's not going to change much even if he is a little bit better of a finesse receiver than he already is. He already runs crisp routes, his footwork in general is good, his hands are good, he has the speed you want from a #1, and he's not a diva. This team isn't drastically going to change and win more games if A.J. slightly ups his game.

There are other guys on the field that would benefit the team GREATLY even if they improve just a little bit more for 2015. I don't think A.J. is in that camp. He's already an excellent #1, so being slightly more excellent wouldn't change too much IMO.

The best thing for this team to do is go out and get a physically dominating #2 or a big, bully of a pass catching TE. A.J. isn't going to be that guy, so it doesn't make much sense when most people's biggest complaint about him is that he doesn't physically destroy defenders. It would be like criticizing Jerome Bettis for not having traits like Giovani Bernard.

(06-04-2015, 07:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: 16) Cincinnati Bengals: Andy Dalton, Jeremy Hill & A.J. Green

Previous rank: No. 13

Green doesn't get enough credit for perpetually biting his lip when the subject of his QB's mediocrity arises. Deep down, Green no doubt knows his lofty production comes in spite of the Red Rifle, not because of it. Hill further proves Cincy's decision-makers know what they're doing at the draft.

See entire list @ NFL.COM

I really like when people assume to know what others are thinking. So I would ask whomever wrote this how it is that they know more what AJ is thinking than AJ seems to?

I always found it curious how you can evaluate the WR position in college separate from the QB, but in the NFL the two are incredibly linked....

(06-05-2015, 03:47 PM)djs7685 Wrote: And no receiver catches every single pass that gets near him. No one with 100+ targets per year makes every catch and they can't make crazy plays on every poor throw.

It works both ways. Some people want to nitpick A.J. but let others off the hook. A.J. is better at his position more so than everyone else on the Bengals roster can say about their respective position other than Whit.

It's the same reason that Aaron Rodgers doesn't get heckled often by Packers' fans, DeMarco Murray doesn't get bashed by Cowboys' fans, and Antonio Brown doesn't get nitpicked by Steelers' fans.

Meh, I've never said that A.J. is perfect, and I can't really recall anybody saying that. A lot of us just think it's silly to spend time nitpicking one of our best players when there are plenty of mediocre or worse guys on this team. I'd take this crazy guess and say that A.J. probably doesn't have much to do with us being 0-4 in the WC round in the past 4 years. I could name a few other guys that have had a bigger impact on those losses.

The QB needs to play better just as the All World receiver needs to step up as well. It is a two way street no matter how you slice it. Not a criticism on either just a simple fact.

(06-05-2015, 11:45 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Did you miss the reaction over even minor critiques on Green?

No one gets mad if you point out Hill needs to protect the ball more.  He does. He fumbled way too often last year. 
There's also a few other nuances to his game that could be pointed out. But no one gets mad if you do.

You mention how AJ has disappeared like everyone else in the playoffs or how he hasn't won the jump ball like he used to, and you are being "pissy"

Saying a guy hasn't won a contested ball in two years is hardly a minor criticism.

People really just kind of fabricate things to criticize him about because he can't be all things to all people and it gripes certain people that some players don't get what is somehow perceived as their fair share of criticism because everyone considers themselves a critic.

So, instead of appreciating him for what he is, some people will get on him for what he isn't.

He is not, nor will ever be, Calvin or Boldin or Julio Jones.  He is not a physical player.  He's not the first great receiver who isn't physical and he certainly won't be the last.

Any jump ball he's ever won has been one where he got up higher, not because he fought it out of a defender's hands. 

The receiver has to come down with the ball.  All the defender has to do is knock it down.

If you say he doesn't always come back for the ball, that I will agree with.

Don't see how the Giants are ranked so high. Odell is a good talent. Eli has been going downhill. And Jennings is meh.

Also don't like Philly being that high either. Bradford isn't good. Matthews has potential. And I honestly don't see Murray doing as well as LeSean McCoy did in Philly.

Also the Saints. What? Drew Brees deserves credit, I understand that. But he's on the decline, Ingram is wishy washy and injury prone. And Cooks? Really?

There's teams with two good or great threats, but get overlooked for the teams with a player that is really good, great, or just gets a ton of hype.

(06-05-2015, 05:43 PM)McC Wrote: Saying a guy hasn't won a contested ball in two years is hardly a minor criticism.

People really just kind of fabricate things to criticize him about because he can't be all things to all people and it gripes certain people that some players don't get what is somehow perceived as their fair share of criticism because everyone considers themselves a critic.

So, instead of appreciating him for what he is, some people will get on him for what he isn't.

He is not, nor will ever be, Calvin or Boldin or Julio Jones.  He is not a physical player.  He's not the first great receiver who isn't physical and he certainly won't be the last.

Any jump ball he's ever won has been one where he got up higher, not because he fought it out of a defender's hands. 

The receiver has to come down with the ball.  All the defender has to do is knock it down.

If you say he doesn't always come back for the ball, that I will agree with.

How is it not a minor criticism? It's one small area of his game he hasn't used like we know he can. It doesn't mean he's a bad player, he (or the coaches) aren't maximizing that skill set. 

What has been fabricated here? 

He doesn't have to be those guys....but he betterdamn good at everything else if he wants to be put in the same tier as them....

As for the defender knocking it out, yeah that's "all he has to do", and the WR should be able to prevent that

So it seems your big issue is just at the wording of my original post.....

(06-05-2015, 03:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I was all for him being in the 10-12 range when his weapons are healthy. But you can not ignore how small he's been in post season and playoff games. That is a really big knock against him until/if he's able to change it. 

But yet you can ignore his regular season performances? The guy has started every game for the past 4 years for a team that has gone to 4 straight playoffs. He should get some for credit for that. 

(06-05-2015, 05:45 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Don't see how the Giants are ranked so high. Odell is a good talent. Eli has been going downhill. And Jennings is meh.

Also don't like Philly being that high either. Bradford isn't good. Matthews has potential. And I honestly don't see Murray doing as well as LeSean McCoy did in Philly.

Also the Saints. What? Drew Brees deserves credit, I understand that. But he's on the decline, Ingram is wishy washy and injury prone. And Cooks? Really?

There's teams with two good or great threats, but get overlooked for the teams with a player that is really good, great, or just gets a ton of hype.

The list is a complete joke its just another clever way to bash Dalton.