(03-18-2022, 04:26 PM)casear2727 Wrote: PFF isnt the Bible and we must look at what is best for the team.  There wasnt a hot body at LG we could cut and save 6M.

Spain or Carmen will do well between Jonah and Karras.  Karras is a perfectly capable center and an upgrade.

I think someone showed his pressure and sacks stats compared to Hop at center and it wasn’t really close .

This is great

Two big bricks in the Joe Burrow protection wall. Ted Karras and Alex Cappa are now at Paul Brown Stadium. #Bengals pic.twitter.com/maAOH764zM

— Joe Danneman (@FOX19Joe) March 18, 2022

(03-18-2022, 04:28 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I think someone showed his pressure and sacks stats compared to Hop at center and it wasn’t really close .

Yeah, I saw that as well.  Good mention.

(03-18-2022, 03:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: I do think Carman will get first crack at LG with the potential of Spain, or similar, here to compete for it.

I'm totally fine with Carman getting the first look. Last year when all the debates in the draft went down many here said there was O-line talent after the first round so no big deal.  That lead us to Chase in the first and Carman in the 2nd.  No regrets there because Chase is amazing. But then it seemed Carman maybe came in out of shape, perhaps due to his injury history? 

So hopefully after a rather disappointing rookie season he has a fire under his ass and will work to live up to his draft position. If not it will be yet another swing and a miss the Bengals have had trying to draft O-line players.
 

(03-18-2022, 04:39 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I'm totally fine with Carman getting the first look. Last year when all the debates in the draft went down many here said there was O-line talent after the first round so no big deal.  That lead us to Chase in the first and Carman in the 2nd.  No regrets there because Chase is amazing. But then it seemed Carman maybe came in out of shape, perhaps due to his injury history? 

So hopefully after a rather disappointing rookie season he has a fire under his ass and will work to live up to his draft position.
 

Au165 made a great point in discord that moving Carman to right side is a tall order for a rookie especially after a year removed from back issues.  Giving Carman a chance to compete at his natural position may help his development. 

(03-18-2022, 04:44 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Au165 made a great point in discord that moving Carman to right side is a tall order for a rookie especially after a year removed from back issues.  Giving Carman a chance to compete at his natural position may help his development. 

That makes sense. 

I don’t like that. He’s a better guard than center

(03-18-2022, 03:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: I do think Carman will get first crack at LG with the potential of Spain, or similar, here to compete for it.

Spain’s good. Carman is bad(for now)

If Spain gets signed, it’s his job to lose

I expect at the very least a 3 way competition at LG between Jackson Carman, D'Ante Smith, and a Rookie.

(03-18-2022, 03:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: I do think Carman will get first crack at LG with the potential of Spain, or similar, here to compete for it.

Just keep moving him around the OL and eventually we'll find his "natural position" seems to be the new Carman plan.  

Think the Bengals are hindering themselves for no good reason passing up on yet another great Browns C. Alex Mack in 2016, now Tretter in 2022.

(03-18-2022, 05:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Just keep moving him around the OL and eventually we'll find his "natural position" seems to be the new Carman plan.  

Honestly, it was a reach to think you could take someone from leftside to rightside AND put him at a new position and think he'd have success as a rookie. Even as great a prospect as Sewell was he struggled at times pretty badly just flipping sides. I can't remember, maybe it was Geff Schwartz, but he basically said flipping sides is WAY harder than anyone ever realizes and it's kind of foolish to expect many to be able to do it well. He said sliding down same side is easier, so we will see I guess.

(03-18-2022, 05:38 PM)Au165 Wrote: Honestly, it was a reach to think you could take someone from leftside to rightside AND put him at a new position and think he'd have success as a rookie. Even as great a prospect as Sewell was he struggled at times pretty badly just flipping sides. I can't remember, maybe it was Geff Schwartz, but he basically said flipping sides is WAY harder than anyone ever realizes and it's kind of foolish to expect many to be able to do it well. He said sliding down same side is easier, so we will see I guess.

It's one of the reasons I'm not so hard on Nicholas Petit-Frere for the Michigan game. He was a RT in 2020 then flipped to LT in 2021 but for that game he had to go back to RT vs 2 of the top edge rushers in college football Aiden Hutchinson and David Ojabo.

(03-18-2022, 05:38 PM)Au165 Wrote: Honestly, it was a reach to think you could take someone from leftside to rightside AND put him at a new position and think he'd have success as a rookie. Even as great a prospect as Sewell was he struggled at times pretty badly just flipping sides. I can't remember, maybe it was Geff Schwartz, but he basically said flipping sides is WAY harder than anyone ever realizes and it's kind of foolish to expect many to be able to do it well. He said sliding down same side is easier, so we will see I guess.

He played LT, they said his future was RT, he played RG, and now he's LG. In 2023 we'll be hearing "actually C is his natural position, he only sucked in 2022 at LG because he was out of position". Lol

At some point you just have to ask yourself if maybe the guy isn't good. He's a big dude with a history of back problems, and his back flared up at least twice last year, and he couldn't beat out Prince or Adeniji for play time. 

I don't want that kind of question mark protecting Burrow when in 2022 anything short of a Super Bowl is a disappointment. The Bengals can afford to get assurance on the OL, and it's there for the taking.

(03-18-2022, 05:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He played LT, they said his future was RT, he played RG, and now he's LG. In 2023 we'll be hearing "actually C is his natural position, he only sucked in 2022 at LG because he was out of position". Lol

At some point you just have to ask yourself if maybe the guy isn't good. He's a big dude with a history of back problems, and his back flared up at least twice last year, and he couldn't beat out Prince or Adeniji for play time. 

I don't want that kind of question mark protecting Burrow when in 2022 anything short of a Super Bowl is a disappointment. The Bengals can afford to get assurance on the OL, and it's there for the taking.

He played LT, we didn't need one but they liked his skill. They were hoping long term he could be a RT but we needed a RG so that's where they put him. Not sure how we end up at "at some point" from that? Playing him at RG was them hoping he'd be able to acclimate to a side flip but he didn't, like most guys can't, so flipping back to the left isn't really this last ditch effort like you are making it out to be he is a 2nd year player. 

Fans are always so quick to want to quit on guys, but O line especially is one place colleges really aren't preparing many O linemen to be competent early in their careers.

(03-18-2022, 05:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: He played LT, we didn't need one but they liked his skill. They were hoping long term he could be a RT but we needed a RG so that's where they put him. Not sure how we end up at "at some point" from that? Playing him at RG was them hoping he'd be able to acclimate to a side flip but he didn't, like most guys can't, so flipping back to the left isn't really this last ditch effort like you are making it out to be he is a 2nd year player. 

There's not being about to acclimate, and then there's a 2nd round pick not even being able to beat Adeniji or Prince for playing time.

(03-18-2022, 05:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's not being about to acclimate, and then there's a 2nd round pick not even being able to beat Adeniji or Prince for playing time.

I mean the injury didn't help late but I don't think we are really positioned to know what really happened behind the scenes. Breaking down a dudes footwork to play RG then kicking him back to RT probably was more of a concern as well. Literally Spain talked about it last year how big an issue it is. Now that said, I didn't like Carman coming out but he really hasn't been put in a situation to succeed at this point. I know people who are friends of Carman locally and I simply thought he was too immature to bet a 2nd on him. Now that said, we will see what year 2 brings but I think the lack of a big move at LG tells you they at least think he's worth another shot.

(03-18-2022, 05:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's not being about to acclimate, and then there's a 2nd round pick not even being able to beat Adeniji or Prince for playing time.

SMH

I was hoping for a quality Center and Karras at LG to solidly the line. They obviously have a lot of faith in Carman coming along. Collins signed to the RT would be a beautiful big nasty cherry on top.

Well, damn. Agree that Tretter is now out AND likely we have settled on Carman/Spain at LG. Neither of those is a good thing IMHO. Hope the FO is not dead set on drafting an OL if a good ones drops to us at #31 (Linderbaum, Green, Johnson).

On the hopefully bright side, cutting Hopkins has to indicate they think a Collins deal is happening. I mean it would just be dumb to do it prematurely.

(03-18-2022, 08:00 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Well, damn. Agree that Tretter is now out AND likely we have settled on Carman/Spain at LG. Neither of those is a good thing IMHO. Hope the FO is not dead set on drafting an OL if a good ones drops to us at #31 (Linderbaum, Green, Johnson).

On the hopefully bright side, cutting Hopkins has to indicate they think a Collins deal is happening. I mean it would just be dumb to do it prematurely.

Spain’s fine

Relying on Carman would be problematic