(03-17-2022, 12:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Yes. Happy that bullet missed us.

When the Bengals got Joe Burrow, the fans donated to the Athens Food Bank. The Browns get Watson and the Rape Crisis Center has received over 1,000 donations in the last 24 hours

   

Donations to a Cleveland rape center has increased since the announcement of Watson going to Cleveland

https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-trade-for-deshaun-watson-prompts-more-than-1000-donations-to-cleveland-rape-crisis-center-194914366.html


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So now he is a Stain eh? Oh well, we know how to play these types of QB's watching last season.

Watson is such a liar, in his press conf. He claimed a bunch of BS. I really hope these women are lying, for the sheer purpose that I hope no female had to be subjected to that type of crime and abuse, but I also hope that he never plays a single game for the browns and they have to pay him all that money! These contracts are getting way way out of hand! Especially when they dolling out hundreds of millions for players and yet counties vote to raise taxes to pay for stadium upgrades. What a joke

Seems to be a PR nightmare recruiting Watson but teams are in the game of winning. Do they have moral obligations to players, staff and their families, to supporters and sponsors and their families? You’d like to think so.
A shitload of capital to get him in as well and I’d certainly wouldn’t surprise if he faces an NFL sanction and suspension.
Crazy imo.

(03-25-2022, 10:29 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: Watson is such a liar,  in his press conf. He claimed a bunch of BS.  I really hope these women are lying, for the sheer purpose that I hope no female had to be subjected to that type of crime and abuse,  but I also hope that he never plays a single game for the browns and they have to pay him all that money!  These contracts are getting way way out of hand!  Especially when they dolling out hundreds of millions for players and yet counties vote to raise taxes to pay for stadium upgrades.  What a joke

(03-26-2022, 06:22 PM)wanga Wrote: Seems to be a PR nightmare recruiting Watson but teams are in the game of winning. Do they have moral obligations to players, staff and their families, to supporters and sponsors and their families? You’d like to think so.
A shitload of capital to get him in as well and I’d certainly wouldn’t surprise if he faces an NFL sanction and suspension.
Crazy imo.

Wild world when people get rewarded even when they are scumbags. It is just overlooked that people like Pig Worthlessburger
is a rapist. No way that many women are lying about Watson some probably are though as Watson has money and much more 
money now. I agree with Cosmo here obviously that I hope Watson never plays a single game for the Stains while they pay the 
scum. This would be hilarious.

(03-25-2022, 10:29 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: Watson is such a liar,  in his press conf. He claimed a bunch of BS. 

What did he lie about?

(03-27-2022, 04:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No way that many women are lying about Watson

How do you know.

Personally I think that there are a certain group of women who go into massage therapy for the "extra" money they can make providing "extra" services.  If you don't believe me then start surfing the web for a woman to come to your house to give you a massage.

The 18 massage therapists who Watson provided who claim he never did anything wrong could be the legitimate group of women who go into that business while the 22 making claims against Watson could be the ones who will do anything for money.

I honestly can't see any legitimate massage therapists seeking a secret settlement that would allow other women to be victimized instead of filing an official complaint or lawsuit.  Once a woman does that she loses the "benefit of the doubt" with me.

Two different Grand juries have refuse to indict him on criminal charges.  So there is something wrong with the testimony from these women.  Generally all you need to get an indictment is "probable cause" and as long as a witness testifies that is considered "probable cause".  Something is not right with their claims.

I would not be surprised if Watson did ask these women to have sex, but that is not against the law and deserves no monetary compensation.

(03-31-2022, 02:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How do you know.

Personally I think that there are a certain group of women who go into massage therapy for the "extra" money they can make providing "extra" services.  If you don't believe me then start surfing the web for a woman to come to your house to give you a massage.

The 18 massage therapists who Watson provided who claim he never did anything wrong could be the legitimate group of women who go into that business while the 22 making claims against Watson could be the ones who will do anything for money.

I honestly can't see any legitimate massage therapists seeking a secret settlement that would allow other women to be victimized instead of filing an official complaint or lawsuit.  Once a woman does that she loses the "benefit of the doubt" with me.

Two different Grand juries have refuse to indict him on criminal charges.  So there is something wrong with the testimony from these women.  Generally all you need to get an indictment is "probable cause" and as long as a witness testifies that is considered "probable cause".  Something is not right with their claims.

I would not be surprised if Watson did ask these women to have sex, but that is not against the law and deserves no monetary compensation.

The mental gymnastics of some to defend a multi million dollar athlete is wild.

Pretty clear to see why people want to avoid going to trial in cases like these and settling, mostly because of people that think like you do. No way the multimillionaire with 22 accusations is in the wrong here, its gotta be the women!

Then you got your morons that find these people online and harass them constantly as soon as they are identified.

Also find it pretty hilarious that you have experience with finding massage therapist offering "extra" online. 

(03-31-2022, 03:51 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote:  No way the multimillionaire with 22 accusations is in the wrong here, its gotta be the women!

Your phrasing betrays your bias.

I just laid out my reasons for why I thought Watson deserves the benefit of the doubt.  It has nothing to do with millionaires never being guilty.  If you knew me better you would know that I have argued many times that multimillionaires are guilty.

I take them case by case based on the specific facts.

And you are unable to see beyond the very basic "multimillionaire with multiple accusers".  There is much more to it than that.

(03-31-2022, 03:51 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote: Pretty clear to see why people want to avoid going to trial in cases like these and settling, mostly because of people that think like you do.

I will admit that my line of work has exposed me to a lot more rape and sexual assault cases than most people.  And I am not saying that most of the women are lying.  But I have seen multiple cases where it was proven that the claims were false.

So maybe I am not as quick to convict an innocent man.

So hopefully most people think the way I do.

(03-26-2022, 06:22 PM)wanga Wrote: Seems to be a PR nightmare recruiting Watson but teams are in the game of winning. Do they have moral obligations to players, staff and their families, to supporters and sponsors and their families? You’d like to think so.
A shitload of capital to get him in as well and I’d certainly wouldn’t surprise if he faces an NFL sanction and suspension.
Crazy imo.

i wouldve at least waited until the civil cases closed. But the Browns simply couldnt risk going into the season with Baker. Baker totally lost the locker room by not taking responsibility for the OBJ fiasco

(03-31-2022, 03:51 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote: The mental gymnastics of some to defend a multi million dollar athlete is wild.

Pretty clear to see why people want to avoid going to trial in cases like these and settling, mostly because of people that think like you do. No way the multimillionaire with 22 accusations is in the wrong here, its gotta be the women!

Then you got your morons that find these people online and harass them constantly as soon as they are identified.

Also find it pretty hilarious that you have experience with finding massage therapist offering "extra" online. 

I work in the courts and im telling you, ppl avoid going to trial because they know they'd lose and be embarrassed. 



I believe Watson was asking for sex at these parlors. And in 9/10 cases the woman was probably giving up the sex willingly for cash. But that would mean Deshaun is guilty of solicitation and the women are guilty of prostitution. To charge Watson with solicitation you HAVE to charge a woman with prostitution. And these women do not want to admit to being prostitutes. So THAT is why no one filed a police report. That is why the civil cases are so outlandish. Some of the cases allege Watson pulled out his meat after seconds of meeting them. That doesnt even make sense.  


I also have a hard time rationalizing the talking point of "22 women cant be lying." If you can pay off 1 woman to lie, why do ppl think you cant pay off 22?




In my heart i dont believe Watson did any rape or sexual assault. He probably is a John and was paying for sex. With his status I have no idea why hed do that but alot of celebrities are creeps. 

(04-02-2022, 02:35 AM)Housh Wrote: I work in the courts and im telling you, ppl avoid going to trial because they know they'd lose and be embarrassed. 



I believe Watson was asking for sex at these parlors. And in 9/10 cases the woman was probably giving up the sex willingly for cash. But that would mean Deshaun is guilty of solicitation and the women are guilty of prostitution. To charge Watson with solicitation you HAVE to charge a woman with prostitution. And these women do not want to admit to being prostitutes. So THAT is why no one filed a police report. That is why the civil cases are so outlandish. Some of the cases allege Watson pulled out his meat after seconds of meeting them. That doesnt even make sense.  


I also have a hard time rationalizing the talking point of "22 women cant be lying." If you can pay off 1 woman to lie, why do ppl think you cant pay off 22?




In my heart i dont believe Watson did any rape or sexual assault. He probably is a John and was paying for sex. With his status I have no idea why hed do that but alot of celebrities are creeps. 

Very rational post

(04-02-2022, 02:35 AM)Housh Wrote: I work in the courts and im telling you, ppl avoid going to trial because they know they'd lose and be embarrassed. 



I believe Watson was asking for sex at these parlors. And in 9/10 cases the woman was probably giving up the sex willingly for cash. But that would mean Deshaun is guilty of solicitation and the women are guilty of prostitution. To charge Watson with solicitation you HAVE to charge a woman with prostitution. And these women do not want to admit to being prostitutes. So THAT is why no one filed a police report. That is why the civil cases are so outlandish. Some of the cases allege Watson pulled out his meat after seconds of meeting them. That doesnt even make sense.  


I also have a hard time rationalizing the talking point of "22 women cant be lying." If you can pay off 1 woman to lie, why do ppl think you cant pay off 22?




In my heart i dont believe Watson did any rape or sexual assault. He probably is a John and was paying for sex. With his status I have no idea why hed do that but alot of celebrities are creeps. 

Firstly you clearly are no more than following the cases in a periphery manner and obviously know little of the court processes involved here.  You may work in the courts, but it is obvious you know little of these cases. 

Below is a generalization for the populace of this thread, not a direct response to the OP.

NOTE:  It is important to note that athlete's generally consider their bodies to be temples and their meal tickets.  The majority, when they find the right therapist that takes care of their body, do all they can to stick with that person.  i.e. James Harrison paid his personal therapist (300k a year) to travel with him and work on him daily to prepare him before and after games.  Watson engaged at least 40+ therapists in multiple states.

Also it should be noted that all 22 complaints didn't come with the initial filing:  women started joining the suit after the initial filing and most of the out of state ones came later.  If this is all a conspiracy, how did Tony Buzzbee find random Craig's List call girls in specific states to pay them off?  Think about that.  Additionally, while I don't like Buzzbee, he's not some random schmuck trying to make a name for himself.  He already has a name and is one of the highest paid lawyers in the country.  He is not beyond going for a buck, but he also doesn't look to blackmail clients.  Point being, he believes these women and he is no fool.

#1 - There were no parlors, no brothels, etc.  He either invited them to his OWN HOUSE or to random hotel rooms and never to the Texan's facilities.  He found his massage therapists on Craig's List.
#2 - Court Process:  TEN (at least) of these women filed criminal complaints on top of being a part of the class action and provided credible enough information to take to grand jury's.  By going down this route, they are beholden to the legal process, which means if they're lying they could be charged with perjury, and as the courts don't like being lied to, this is a great risk.  Also, Watson got his lawyer to get the courts to release the names of those who filed complaints against Watson.  Only two backed out.
#3 - The numbers:  Watson has admitted to engaging over FOURTY different massage therapists all across the country in multiple states.  Most criminal complaints come from multiple counties in Texas and multiple states.  

It should be noted that several of the therapists who are professionally bonded and licensed, that filed criminal complaints, have also spoken to the media, most notably SI.com for their exhaustive investigative report.  When you read their accounts, they sound like abused women, not money grubbers, and again among DW's victims are absolutely legitimate therapists with excellent reputations.  These women are being abused by coming forward, yet they are sticking it out.

My supposition is this.....among the Craig's list "therapists" are some call girls.  DW knew this and called a few....got his reward.  He got addicted to the strange and excitement, and kept calling different ones, and among them were legitimate therapists, who make up the majority of the complaints.  So he admits to 40 different women over three years, with 22 filing complaints.  Among those are likely some of the call girls just looking for a payout, but it is in my mind completely naïve, sexist and chauvinist to look at those 22 complaints from the 40+ women and go "it's all smoke".  That is just a ludicrous conclusion.

Here educate yourselves.  
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/05/21/new-information-proper-context-for-deshaun-watson-sexual-misconduct-lawsuits-daily-cover
If you're not willing to read this, then you should just stop commenting on the DW situation.

As I always state I believe in innocent until proven guilty.  Every defendant deserves the right to defend themself to the best of their ability.  As for the criminal charges that were dismissed, I read that only 1 of the complainants actually testified to the grand jury.  I don't care one bit for Mike Florio but here is his take as a lawyer with interesting points I put in bold:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/11/deshaun-watson-grand-jury-wanted-to-hear-from-only-one-alleged-victim/

Quote:Per the Times, “several” of the women were present and ready to testify. A source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that five of the women were there.

According to PFT’s source, the prosecutor presented evidence regarding all nine claims to the grand jury. The grand jury ultimately wanted to hear directly from one of them.

Two of the cases presented a higher potential of an indictment. None of the nine resulted in the grand jury charging Watson.

Watson’s camp had been quietly optimistic that the allegations against, even if accepted as true, did not amount to crimes. The grand jury apparently agreed.

As we’ve previously explained, indictments often hinge on the zeal applied by the prosecutor. If the prosecutor wants to indict a suspect, it’s not hard to do — since the defendant has no representation in the process. If the prosecutor doesn’t want to indict a suspect, it’s also not hard to do. The prosecutor controls what is and isn’t presented, and a skilled prosecutor can nudge a grand jury in a desired direction.

So why wouldn’t the prosecutor in this case not want an indictment of Watson? Possibly, she truly believed no crimes had been committed. It’s also possible that she believed she would not be able to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt at trial, even if she believed that Watson had crossed the line.

There’s a fundamental difference between factual guilt and legal guilt. Plenty of people are factually guilty, but the court system can’t prove that they are legally guilty. As to Watson, the criminal process has ended. On the civil side, 22 cases remain. In one or more of those cases, a jury eventually could conclude that he violated the legal rights of the women who are suing him, under the much lower legal standard of preponderance of the evidence.

Is he guilty of something?  Given the 22 civil complaints and the nine people that made criminal complaints, yeah probably in my opinion.  But the legal system worked within the law.  Did status and money play a part?  I don't know.   I'd like to think it didn't but these days who knows.   

But for now Watson is just a quarterback for the Browns, not charged with any crimes, but still facing civil charges.   Let's get over it. Burrow and company are going to make Watson wish he never signed with an AFCN team anyway. :)

(04-02-2022, 01:35 PM)Stewy Wrote: Firstly you clearly are no more than following the cases in a periphery manner and obviously know little of the court processes involved here.  You may work in the courts, but it is obvious you know little of these cases. 

Below is a generalization for the populace of this thread, not a direct response to the OP.

NOTE:  It is important to note that athlete's generally consider their bodies to be temples and their meal tickets.  The majority, when they find the right therapist that takes care of their body, do all they can to stick with that person.  i.e. James Harrison paid his personal therapist (300k a year) to travel with him and work on him daily to prepare him before and after games.  Watson engaged at least 40+ therapists in multiple states.

Also it should be noted that all 22 complaints didn't come with the initial filing:  women started joining the suit after the initial filing and most of the out of state ones came later.  If this is all a conspiracy, how did Tony Buzzbee find random Craig's List call girls in specific states to pay them off?  Think about that.  Additionally, while I don't like Buzzbee, he's not some random schmuck trying to make a name for himself.  He already has a name and is one of the highest paid lawyers in the country.  He is not beyond going for a buck, but he also doesn't look to blackmail clients.  Point being, he believes these women and he is no fool.

#1 - There were no parlors, no brothels, etc.  He either invited them to his OWN HOUSE or to random hotel rooms and never to the Texan's facilities.  He found his massage therapists on Craig's List.
#2 - Court Process:  TEN (at least) of these women filed criminal complaints on top of being a part of the class action and provided credible enough information to take to grand jury's.  By going down this route, they are beholden to the legal process, which means if they're lying they could be charged with perjury, and as the courts don't like being lied to, this is a great risk.  Also, Watson got his lawyer to get the courts to release the names of those who filed complaints against Watson.  Only two backed out.
#3 - The numbers:  Watson has admitted to engaging over FOURTY different massage therapists all across the country in multiple states.  Most criminal complaints come from multiple counties in Texas and multiple states.  

It should be noted that several of the therapists who are professionally bonded and licensed, that filed criminal complaints, have also spoken to the media, most notably SI.com for their exhaustive investigative report.  When you read their accounts, they sound like abused women, not money grubbers, and again among DW's victims are absolutely legitimate therapists with excellent reputations.  These women are being abused by coming forward, yet they are sticking it out.

My supposition is this.....among the Craig's list "therapists" are some call girls.  DW knew this and called a few....got his reward.  He got addicted to the strange and excitement, and kept calling different ones, and among them were legitimate therapists, who make up the majority of the complaints.  So he admits to 40 different women over three years, with 22 filing complaints.  Among those are likely some of the call girls just looking for a payout, but it is in my mind completely naïve, sexist and chauvinist to look at those 22 complaints from the 40+ women and go "it's all smoke".  That is just a ludicrous conclusion.

Here educate yourselves.  
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/05/21/new-information-proper-context-for-deshaun-watson-sexual-misconduct-lawsuits-daily-cover
If you're not willing to read this, then you should just stop commenting on the DW situation.

Rep

(04-02-2022, 01:35 PM)Stewy Wrote: It should be noted that several of the therapists who are professionally bonded and licensed, that filed criminal complaints, have also spoken to the media, most notably SI.com for their exhaustive investigative report.  When you read their accounts, they sound like abused women, not money grubbers, and again among DW's victims are absolutely legitimate therapists with excellent reputations.  These women are being abused by coming forward, yet they are sticking it out.

My supposition is this.....among the Craig's list "therapists" are some call girls.  DW knew this and called a few....got his reward.  He got addicted to the strange and excitement, and kept calling different ones, and among them were legitimate therapists, who make up the majority of the complaints.  So he admits to 40 different women over three years, with 22 filing complaints.  Among those are likely some of the call girls just looking for a payout, but it is in my mind completely naïve, sexist and chauvinist to look at those 22 complaints from the 40+ women and go "it's all smoke".  That is just a ludicrous conclusion.

Here educate yourselves.  
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/05/21/new-information-proper-context-for-deshaun-watson-sexual-misconduct-lawsuits-daily-cover
If you're not willing to read this, then you should just stop commenting on the DW situation.

The middle paragraph is literally exactly what i guessed. Dude was probably doing sex for cash and some of the girl gave it up and some probably didn’t. Once again we see the argument of “It’s a lot of accusations so they must be true.”


Is it likely that nothing happened? No. But in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. That SI article is fine and dandy but if you can’t prove it in court then what’s the point? Is it believable? Yes. But this isn’t the court of he say she say.