(04-05-2022, 10:12 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: With some you can Just tell Especially skill position groups Julio last year AJ Green we shouldn't have franchised him. Dhop more than likely be next on the list. Zeke I can guarantee won't make it through a full season.

Yep. Age plays in for WR's heavily and playing style.

With RB, it seems to be a combo of age and number of carries. But, generally 29/30 is when their careers fall off a cliff. Some of the freaks like AP seem immune to that somewhat. But, it's few and far between.

(04-05-2022, 10:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exactly, Of course luck is a very  important component, but it's not "just luck". If so why do NFL team have a conditioning department? I mean all the stretching and rest in the world is not going to stop your leg from breaking when it suffers a severe impact, put it can aid in soft tissue injuries. 

In the vein of strength of conditioning coaches, it looks like Zac brought Boese in with him too in 2019.

Bengals make changes to strength and conditioning staff (usatoday.com)

This site tracks Bengals injuries per season:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2021_injuries.htm

Just looking at it quickly, I'd say that we did have a decent amount of injuries in 2021. They just weren't to key players and they weren't season ending. But, Ossai and Waynes basically missed the year. XSF missed a lot of time. ADG missed a lot of the end of the season. Jordan Evans missed a lot of games. Then of course Larry O at the end. Logan Wilson missed 3 games with a shoulder injury that he would have been probably out for the year with if we weren't contending.

In 2020, Atkins, Burrow, Green, Reader, XSF, Tupou, CJ, and Trae Waynes all had major injuries that costed a lot of time. So lots of the top 10-15 players on the roster. And lots of year ending injuries.

In 2019, we had AJ Green, Cordy Glenn, and Jonah miss lots of time. Glasgow, Ross, Wynn, and Phillips had significant injuries, but not key guys.

(04-05-2022, 11:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Considering that the same exact crew had one of the worst seasons ever for injuries in 2020 I'd guess that our success in avoiding them in 2021 was mostly luck.

Is there ANY possibility in your world that people learn and improve as they go? Especially a young coaching staff?

(04-05-2022, 05:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is just a total and complete lie.

I have given Zac tons of credit for taking us to the Super Bowl.  If you keep lying like this I will look up the posts to prove it.

What is with you people here that make everything personal?

Besides the Super Bowl ( duh!) what do you praise Taylor for?

(04-05-2022, 10:07 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: but expect head coach Zac Taylor and strength and conditioning coach Joey Boese to utilize the same tactics they’ve been using since arriving in Cincinnati.

(04-06-2022, 10:26 AM)SladeX Wrote: Is there ANY possibility in your world that people learn and improve as they go? Especially a young coaching staff?

No

(04-06-2022, 10:53 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Besides the Super Bowl ( duh!) what do you praise Taylor for?

I don't even understand what you mean. Most people judge coaches by wins.

(04-06-2022, 12:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't even understand what you mean. Most people judge coaches by wins.

It’s not that simple. Pete Carroll was fired. Bill Belichick struggled his first 3 years at Cleveland. Nick Saban started slow at MSU. Jimmy Johnson inherited Dan Marino but had a worse record than Shula did his last few years. I could go on and on.

The roster and culture were poor that Taylor inherited. Injuries derailed the hell out of the ‘20 team. What do you not understand about this? Besides the Super Bowl what IYHO has Taylor done an excellent job in as Head Coach?

(04-06-2022, 12:53 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s not that simple. Pete Carroll was fired. Bill Belichick struggled his first 3 years at Cleveland. Nick Saban started slow at MSU.  Jimmy Johnson inherited Dan Marino but had a worse record than Shula did his last few years. I could go on and on.

You can go on and on all you want. No one praised any of those coaches until they won.

And even Zac has admitted that he was not behind the front office complete 180 on signing free agent talent.

It is impossible to have a "winning culture" without winning and the Bengals sucked over Zacs first two years.

(04-06-2022, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can go on and on all you want. No one praised any of those coaches until they won.

And even Zac has admitted that he was not behind the front office complete 180 on signing free agent talent.

It is impossible to have a "winning culture" without winning and the Bengals sucked over Zacs first two years.

And I realize that Zac didn’t warrant praise in season 1 or 2. He won what 5 games? But the turnaround is impressive. Again for the third time what can you praise Taylor for besides the Super Bowl?

I won't get into the Zac stuff.... But I think you can separate out injuries to contact and non contact based injuries.

Contact injuries probably have more luck associated with them.

Non contact injuries likely benefit the most from the use of analytics in training schedule.

Teams can have either, but it is great if we can improve on the non contact injury front.


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(04-06-2022, 01:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Again for the third time what can you praise Taylor for besides the Super Bowl?

Again, for the third time, nothing. 

Coaching is about winning. I don't understand what else you think he should be praised for.

(04-06-2022, 09:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This site tracks Bengals injuries per season:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2021_injuries.htm

Just looking at it quickly, I'd say that we did have a decent amount of injuries in 2021. They just weren't to key players and they weren't season ending. But, Ossai and Waynes basically missed the year. XSF missed a lot of time. ADG missed a lot of the end of the season. Jordan Evans missed a lot of games. Then of course Larry O at the end. Logan Wilson missed 3 games with a shoulder injury that he would have been probably out for the year with if we weren't contending.

In 2020, Atkins, Burrow, Green, Reader, XSF, Tupou, CJ, and Trae Waynes all had major injuries that costed a lot of time. So lots of the top 10-15 players on the roster. And lots of year ending injuries.

In 2019, we had AJ Green, Cordy Glenn, and Jonah miss lots of time. Glasgow, Ross, Wynn, and Phillips had significant injuries, but not key guys.

Time to return those defective models to the used player store that we bought them from. 

(04-06-2022, 01:13 PM)maclanta Wrote: I won't get into the  Zac stuff.... But I think you can separate out injuries to contact and non contact based injuries.

Contact injuries probably have more luck associated with them.

Non contact injuries likely benefit the most from the use of analytics in training schedule.

Teams can have either, but it is great if we can improve on the non contact injury front.


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This I agree with.  Of course there is luck or bad luck when injuries happen.  If a 300lb plus player steps on another players ankle during a play causing an injury that is bad luck.  If a player pulls a hamstring running a route in practice that may have something to do with conditioning or it could also be a bit a of bad luck depending on how it happened.  For example claims were made that AJ's injury in 2019 might have had something to do with the field in Dayton being in poor condition.  Although Zac stated he didn't think the field was part of the issue.  So if he stepped on a bad part of the field and it contributed to his injury that was probably bad luck mixed with poor playing conditions.

Taking measures to limit non-contact injuries based on data and advances in sports science is most likely going to help minimize non-contact injuries.  It certainly will not eliminate the bad luck but it should decrease the odds of a non-contact injury.  If the Bengals staff continues to follow the science and improve on what they have learned to reduce injuries that is something that should be expected.

Anyway I don't get all the arguing over an article that is pointing out what the Bengals are doing to help reduce the risk of injuries. The Bengals seem to be making great progress with all aspects of their team. That's all that matters to me.

(04-06-2022, 01:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, for the third time, nothing. 

Coaching is about winning. I don't understand what else you think he should be praised for.

I’ll rephrase. What things have impressed you about Taylor as head coach?

(04-06-2022, 01:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, for the third time, nothing. 

Coaching is about winning. I don't understand what else you think he should be praised for.

Why is Jon Gruden no longer a NFL Head Coach? It's all about wins AmIright? Folks within and outside the organization applaud the personnel decision Zac has made since coming into the league. 

(04-06-2022, 01:29 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: This I agree with.  Of course there is luck or bad luck when injuries happen.  If a 300lb plus player steps on another players ankle during a play causing an injury that is bad luck.  If a player pulls a hamstring running a route in practice that may have something to do with conditioning or it could also be a bit a of bad luck depending on how it happened.  For example claims were made that AJ's injury in 2019 might have had something to do with the field in Dayton being in poor condition.  Although Zac stated he didn't think the field was part of the issue.  So if he stepped on a bad part of the field and it contributed to his injury that was probably bad luck mixed with poor playing conditions.

Taking measures to limit non-contact injuries based on data and advances in sports science is most likely going to help minimize non-contact injuries.  It certainly will not eliminate the bad luck but it should decrease the odds of a non-contact injury.  If the Bengals staff continues to follow the science and improve on what they have learned to reduce injuries that is something that should be expected.

Anyway I don't get all the arguing over an article that is pointing out what the Bengals are doing to help reduce the risk of injuries.  The Bengals seem to be making great progress with all aspects of their team.  That's all that matters to me.

AJ's injury was likely age and playing style. He runs and jumps a lot. I don't know many WR's with his build that stay healthy past 30. Randy Moss was basically done at 32.

(04-06-2022, 01:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why is Jon Gruden no longer a NFL Head Coach? It's all about wins AmIright? Folks within and outside the organization applaud the personnel decision Zac has made since coming into the league. 

Taylor is deserving of criticism. He’s been hit and miss as OC. How much is that to be blamed on the OL? We’ll find out this year. But JMHO too many Bengal fans judge him on his first 2 years. 2019 he got such a late start and had never been a HC. The next year injuries were abominable. Good lord peoples biases make me sick. The ones that solely attribute the turnaround to just the FA and Burrow/Chase are short sighted.

(04-06-2022, 01:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why is Jon Gruden no longer a NFL Head Coach? It's all about wins AmIright? Folks within and outside the organization applaud the personnel decision Zac has made since coming into the league. 

I would argue that Gruden wasn't that great at winning either. 117-112 for his career. Only 4 times out of 15 seasons did he win more than 9 games.

(04-06-2022, 02:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: AJ's injury was likely age and playing style. He runs and jumps a lot. I don't know many WR's with his build that stay healthy past 30. Randy Moss was basically done at 32.

Could be.  I just mentioned it on the topic of bad luck because there were reports that the field was in bad condition including what Boyd and other staff members apparently said.  From the article I linked:

Quote:“The turf was terrible,” Boyd said, per ESPN. “I couldn’t run any routes out there. I’m falling all over the ground. It was bad. It was rocks, pebbles out there. Man, it was somewhere we shouldn’t have been. I’m not trying to say any excuses, but it is what it is.”

Quote:Breer added that several Bengals staffers were “frustrated that Green’s injury happened on a field that they saw as subpar.”

So maybe age and playing style or maybe bad luck playing on a field that maybe was in poor condition.  Or a combination of all. We'll probably never know.