(04-12-2022, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think we should trade anyone until we win a championship.

Higgins is an elite talent still getting paid on his rookie deal. We need to take full advantage of that while we can instead of trading him for a pick that might be a bust.

After this season, Tee will have one year remaining on his rookie deal (and to be clear, I wasn't suggesting trading him BEFORE this season, but before that final year), at which point the Bengals will get nothing for him other than a potential compensatory pick.

Drafting a guy and developing him (and determining if he is a capable replacement) this year in, say, round 2 and taking what could be a first round pick from some NFC team after this season for Higgins before he hits FA the following year would be a legitimate business decision.

Maybe there is no NFC team that offers a first rounder.  Maybe the Bengals can afford to "kick the can down the street" another year and use the franchise tag on him.  At least with the scenario I described they are better prepared for life without Higgins and they don't need to also be prepared for life without Jonah Williams, Logan Wilson, and Vonn Bell because they have too much tied up in the WR position group. 

(04-12-2022, 10:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Alec Pierce will be on the board when we pick in the 3rd.

Wager bottle of your favorite with a $50 cap?

(04-13-2022, 01:07 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: You seriously think he only has 4 million?

Celebrity Net Worth:

This one only says 18, which is still a lot.

This one says 33.5

Sorry, I misread your post and thought you were saying pay him 40 million. 

(04-13-2022, 07:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This.  We all love Higgins, but the fact is there are more NFL ready WRs coming out of college now than ever before.  Rookies making a huge impact.  It would probably be one of the easier positions to replace.  Especially if he has another really good year and teams like the Jags are overpaying guys like Kirk.

There is NO DOUBT Burrow and Chase are cornerstones.  Higgins is great but I can't see spending that much on one position group with all the talent coming out in the draft.

Look at it this way:  You get Pierce in Rd 2, and you get a 2nd round pick for Higgins after this year (as he only has one more cheap year on his rookie deal, but that is still one year).  You now have roughly $15-18 million more dollars of cap space and another pick to use on extending the likes of Wilson, Bell, Chido, Jonah, etc.  It isn't a small chunk.

When the Pats were on their domination streak (yes, a lot of it was Brady) they rarely paid super high FA dollars to players they developed.  They just avoided massive holes on their roster by stockpiling picks and having cap space to plug holes with solid veterans.  

People are reading this like I want Higgins gone for a guy like Pierce and that couldn't be further from the truth, but I also know the realities of having that much money in one position group could create holes in another spot on the roster.  

Seems like your logic is circular. On one hand you claim we can easily replace Higgins with a second round pick, but then you claim teams will give us a second round pick for Higgins.

If it was that easy to get a replacement as good as Higgins then other teams would just draft a WR and pay him a couple of million on a rookie contract instead of trading for Higgins and paying him 5 times as much.

When you trade a proven star for a draft pick you could very easily end up with a player not nearly as good as Tee. Possibly a complete bust. You make those type of moves when you are rebuilding not when you are trying to win championships.

(04-11-2022, 08:12 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Would you be comfortable with the Bengals taking a WR with their first round pick? I really like this Alec Pierce from UC.He’s a big receiver that is very athletic,and he’s fast.(4.41 forty)I know they have other needs,but this would sure add to Joe Burrow’s arsenal.I wouldn’t be disappointed if they selected him in the first round,if he’s still There.The Bengals just had him in for a visit.

As others have probably already said, Pierce is probably not an option as he would be a reach at 31 and most likely will 
be taken before 63. But if he fell to 63 I wouldn't be against it. Big, fast WR that goes up for the ball very well. Still would
rather wait for WR to add depth in the mid rounds. Need a Corner early and a DT. 

I think we could possibly get some great ones for the future in the first and 2nd. Also wouldn't mind adding an End or a
talented OL early. Keep building the trenches needs to be the main focus of this team for years to come and we will be in 
a lot of Superbowls if we do so.

(04-13-2022, 10:33 AM)TheFan Wrote: Sorry, I misread your post and thought you were saying pay him 40 million. 

I'm brain damaged but I'm not THAT stupid 

(04-13-2022, 04:06 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm brain damaged but I'm not THAT stupid 

Watch out, Fred might want to debate that with you.. 

(04-13-2022, 08:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wager bottle of your favorite with a $50 cap?

Yea, I actually would take that with you. 

I think his floor is potentially the 50-59 range with GB twice and Dallas in there both with serious interest.

(04-13-2022, 04:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Watch out, Fred might want to debate that with you.. 

HAPPILY!

(04-13-2022, 12:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Seems like your logic is circular. On one hand you claim we can easily replace Higgins with a second round pick, but then you claim teams will give us a second round pick for Higgins.

If it was that easy to get a replacement as good as Higgins then other teams would just draft a WR and pay him a couple of million on a rookie contract instead of trading for Higgins and paying him 5 times as much.

When you trade a proven star for a draft pick you could very easily end up with a player not nearly as good as Tee. Possibly a complete bust. You make those type of moves when you are rebuilding not when you are trying to win championships.

First of all, I NEVER said it would be "easy".  Far from it, and part of the logic of drafting a guy like Pierce now is you have a year to evaluate him before considering letting Tee go...

Second, when you have a player like Chase that will likely command the biggest NFL contract for a WR, things have to be considered like getting value for Higgins before you lose him for nothing.  Imagine some team that thought they were very close to winning it all....say, Tampa, and they have a huge need at FS.  If they call and offer their first round pick for Bates THIS year, would you not take it?  He is all but gone next year.  Same story, as I mentioned they have the same agent, but in THIS scenario, at least you have drafted and evaluated a player like Pierce to see if you believe he is capable of being his replacement.  

Lastly, as far as these being moves you make when you are rebuilding, please show me the high dollars the Pats spent on WRs that were becoming FAs during their dynastic run.  They were clearly trying to win championships. 

(04-13-2022, 04:37 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, I actually would take that with you. 

I think his floor is potentially the 50-59 range with GB twice and Dallas in there both with serious interest.

So, you agree he would be gone before the Bengals pick, or no?  My wager was that he would be gone.  BFine said he would be there...or at least I think it was Bfine....Ugh, old age. 

(04-14-2022, 07:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Lastly, as far as these being moves you make when you are rebuilding, please show me the high dollars the Pats spent on WRs that were becoming FAs during their dynastic run.  They were clearly trying to win championships. 

Show me the WRs they had that were worth re-signing to huge contracts.

I know they traded for Moss when he was one of the highest paid WRs in the league.

(04-14-2022, 07:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  If they call and offer their first round pick for Bates THIS year, would you not take it? 

No.  Not unless we had a top level veteran free agent to step in and play at safety this year.

We need to win a Super Bowl in '22 or'23.  I am not blowing this season by starting a rookie at free safety.

(04-14-2022, 07:51 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: So, you agree he would be gone before the Bengals pick, or no?  My wager was that he would be gone.  BFine said he would be there...or at least I think it was Bfine....Ugh, old age. 

Correct, I agree.

(04-14-2022, 09:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Show me the WRs they had that were worth re-signing to huge contracts.

I know they traded for Moss when he was one of the highest paid WRs in the league.

Wes Welker

Brandin Cooks

Julian Edelman (partly because he was a slot WR, paid less than most outside studs)

Deion Branch

Troy Brown (who even played some CB for them and had a three INT season)

Danny Amendola (again, a slot WR)

They got away with not overpaying Gronk largely due to his health and the so-called position group bias...

Those guys, based on their performances and importance to the team (all seemed to really catch fire in the postseason as well), would likely be very highly paid WRs in today's game.  Yet, the Pats always found a way to replace them before getting a huge contract.  Gronk got paid, but not like the WRs of today.  

(04-19-2022, 08:01 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wes Welker

Brandin Cooks

Julian Edelman (partly because he was a slot WR, paid less than most outside studs)

Deion Branch

Troy Brown (who even played some CB for them and had a three INT season)

Danny Amendola (again, a slot WR)

They got away with not overpaying Gronk largely due to his health and the so-called position group bias...

Those guys, based on their performances and importance to the team (all seemed to really catch fire in the postseason as well), would likely be very highly paid WRs in today's game.  Yet, the Pats always found a way to replace them before getting a huge contract.  Gronk got paid, but not like the WRs of today.  

Just shows you how important Brady is... all of those WR are considered average IMO. Not including Gronk in that statement.

Burrow style is different than Brady however... he likes to throw it deep more often.  Which may lead to us keeping two elite WR's and try to make up for it elsewhere

(04-19-2022, 10:31 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Just shows you how important Brady is... all of those WR are considered average IMO. Not including Gronk in that statement.

Burrow style is different than Brady however... he likes to throw it deep more often.  Which may lead to us keeping two elite WR's and try to make up for it elsewhere

I sure don't think Welker or Amendola were average in their prime...just because they didn't play outside.  

The ONLY reason you draft Pierce is if you have ZERO intentions of re-signing Higgins.

The drafting of Pierce would be more about future contract situations rather than him coming in and immediately, largely, contributing.

If they have plans on re-signing Higgins then this pick would make absolutely ZERO sense...especially if you're trying to win now.

(04-19-2022, 10:47 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The ONLY reason you draft Pierce is if you have ZERO intentions of re-signing Higgins.

The drafting of Pierce would be more about future contract situations rather than him coming in and immediately, largely, contributing.

If they have plans on re-signing Higgins then this pick would make absolutely ZERO sense...especially if you're trying to win now.

It’d be to replace Boyd since his contract is up before Tee’s

(04-19-2022, 10:31 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Just shows you how important Brady is... all of those WR are considered average IMO. Not including Gronk in that statement.

Burrow style is different than Brady however... he likes to throw it deep more often.  Which may lead to us keeping two elite WR's and try to make up for it elsewhere

Huh?

- Welker is arguably the best slot WR since the 2000s began, 2 time AP and stud returner
- Cooks is a multiple (6x) 1,000 yard receiver
- Troy Brown was an excellent and underrated WR, once he was a featured piece of the team (IE started more than 4 games a year and saw meaningful snaps)

The others I'd agree, but those 3 were absolutely FAR from average (especially Welker. That's terrible posting on your part).