(04-12-2022, 02:57 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The Bengals track record for drafting OL has been atrocious in the last 10 years in ALL rounds (1 Price, 1 Oggy, 2 Fisher

The Bengals track record for drafting D-linemen was atrocious for a decade before we drafted Sam Hubbard.

And I don't see how you can label Jonah as an "atrocious"  pick.

(04-07-2022, 12:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree

I'm a little hesitant to just pencil in Carman as starting LG. Especially considering our backups !

Starters being Williams Carman Karras Cappa Collins. Then look at the backups - OT Prince ummmm OG's Adeniji and Smith neither of which I have much faith in. Then the two dudes at C.

People talk about how we need depth at DT, CB, S and I don't disagree. However, our depth at Oline is very weak IMHO. I know when do you ever have great depth ? I get it. But it seems to me we could at least get a little better.

The shorter version is I wish they would bring Spain back or some other vet more established backup in case Carman falters.

Need to do this just cause of Carman's back injury in the past. Bring back Spain or bring in another LG for depth.

Love the guy if he can play but none if it matters if he cannot. Hoping from what Pollack and the coaches have said about 
Carman is they know better than we do about the injury from the medical staff. Cause if Carman is fully healthy this Offseason
and starts at LG I think he could have a very good sophomore season as long as he works on his hand placement and stays 
healthy. Very talented player with great power and good feet to play LG where he played well in his little time there as a rookie.

(04-13-2022, 12:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals track record for drafting D-linemen was atrocious for a decade before we drafted Sam Hubbard.

And I don't see how you can label Jonah as an "atrocious"  pick.

Hubbard was drafted in the 3rd round of the 2018 draft.  From 2008 through 2018, the Bengals have drafted 14 defensive lineman: 

• Jordan Willis
• Carl Lawson
• Ryan Glasgow
• Andrew Billings
• Marcus Hardison
• Will Clarke
• Margus Hunt
• Brandon Thompson
• Carlos Dunlap
• Geno Atkins
• Michael Johnson
• Clinton McDonald
• Jason Shirley
• Pat Sims
  

Atleast 7 of those players went on to sign second contracts in the NFL.  Considering the Bengals didn't use any first round picks on the above players and several were day three picks, the hit rate on defensive lineman had been one of their strong suits.  Were you just trolling with the above post?  

(04-13-2022, 12:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals track record for drafting D-linemen was atrocious for a decade before we drafted Sam Hubbard.

And I don't see how you can label Jonah as an "atrocious"  pick.

Guess the Bengals need to improve their scouting?

Jonah was a good pick. 1 out of the last 8 years with about 12 picks isn't exactly screaming success.

Hubbard was drafted in 18.
Lawson 17
Dunlap/Geno 10
Michael Johnson 09

So are you saying those guys were all atrocious??

(04-13-2022, 01:25 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Guess the Bengals need to improve their scouting?

Jonah was a good pick. 1 out of the last 8 years with about 12 picks isn't exactly screaming success.

Hubbard was drafted in 18.
Lawson 17
Dunlap/Geno 10
Michael Johnson 09

So are you saying those guys were all atrocious??

Sounds like it was an ill-prepared hot take that backfired.   

(04-13-2022, 01:29 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Sounds like it was an ill-prepared hot take that backfired.   

Definitely backfired.. and you beat me to it by a few minutes lol

By his high standards, Jonah is atrocious!

(04-13-2022, 01:21 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Hubbard was drafted in the 3rd round of the 2018 draft.  From 2008 through 2018, the Bengals have drafted 14 defensive lineman: 

• Jordan Willis
• Carl Lawson
• Ryan Glasgow
• Andrew Billings
• Marcus Hardison
• Will Clarke
• Margus Hunt
• Brandon Thompson
• Carlos Dunlap
• Geno Atkins
• Michael Johnson
• Clinton McDonald
• Jason Shirley
• Pat Sims
  

Atleast 7 of those players went on to sign second contracts in the NFL.  Considering the Bengals didn't use any first round picks on the above players and several were day three picks, the hit rate on defensive lineman had been one of their strong suits.  Were you just trolling with the above post?  

you proved Fred's pont. the last decade (2011/2012 - now) has been bad in terms of drafting d-linemen, except for Lawson and Hubbard

Atkins and Dunlap are pre 2011. Johnson is also pre 2011 I believe

(04-13-2022, 01:53 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: you proved Fred's pont. the last decade (2011/2012 - now) has been bad in terms of drafting d-linemen, except for Lawson and Hubbard

Atkins and Dunlap are pre 2011. Johnson is also pre 2011 I believe

Per Fred:

"The Bengals track record for drafting D-linemen was atrocious for a decade before we drafted Sam Hubbard."


Sam Hubbard was drafted in 2018.  Time span would be 2008 thru 2018.  In turn, the Atkins, Johnson and Dunlap drafts are in-scope of Fred's comment.  

(04-13-2022, 02:04 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Per Fred:

"The Bengals track record for drafting D-linemen was atrocious for a decade before we drafted Sam Hubbard."


Sam Hubbard was drafted in 2018.  Time span would be 2008 thru 2018.  In turn, the Atkins, Johnson and Dunlap drafts are in-scope of Fred's comment.  

when you look at it that way...

(04-13-2022, 12:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals track record for drafting D-linemen was atrocious for a decade before we drafted Sam Hubbard.

Sorry, not a decade.  Only 8 years.  Does not change the point I was making.

Just because a team has a bad streak of drafting certain positions that does not mean they will never pick anyone good at that position.

And who all agrees that Jonah Williams was an "atrocious" pick?

(04-12-2022, 02:57 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Jonah in 2019, then 2012 Zietler, 2011 Boling, 2009 Andre Smith, 2006 Whitworth. The other 17 selected during that time have been avg to garbage (doesn't include Carman or Smith).

(04-13-2022, 02:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And who all agrees that Jonah Williams was an "atrocious" pick?

Apparently only you.

(04-13-2022, 04:05 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Apparently only you.

And this guy

(04-12-2022, 02:57 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The Bengals track record for drafting OL has been atrocious in the last 10 years in ALL rounds (1 Price, 1 Oggy, 2 Fischer)

At this point I'm more worried about depth, especially at Tackle. Hopefully D'Ante Smith has progressed. I know he is listed on Bengals.com as a Guard but I'm pretty certain he is a potential back up Tackle.

Would it be possible to bring back Riley Reiff mid-way through the year if there was an injury/lack of performance at the position (a la Chris Crocker)? I don't think he's signed with anyone yet.

(04-17-2022, 05:09 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: At this point I'm more worried about depth, especially at Tackle. Hopefully D'Ante Smith has progressed. I know he is listed on Bengals.com as a Guard but I'm pretty certain he is a potential back up Tackle.

Would it be possible to bring back Riley Reiff mid-way through the year if there was an injury/lack of performance at the position (a la Chris Crocker)? I don't think he's signed with anyone yet.

I'm cautious but not terrified of depth at tackle.  I think Prince, while not good, played okay for a backup and was greatly hampered by playing next to Adeniji most of the time.  I think he'd look worlds better next to Cappa.  It's not ideal to have him starting at all, but I'm not losing my mind if it happens.  His reputation as a penalty machine seems to have diminished a bit, which is good.  He also has a lot more experience than he did going into 2021.  We could do worse in terms of backup RT, but then again backups are backups for a reason.  If guys were world beaters in a league starving for o-line quality, they wouldn't be backups to begin with.

Won't lie, though. Adeniji getting into games makes me nervous. He's a terrific athlete measurable-wise, but I just don't think he gets it when defenses start to find weak points in his game and attack. His story plays out the same both times he's gotten significant snaps. He begins with a lot of promise, then he goes full meltdown in a really costly way.

I wish we would sign J.C. Tretter so that we had more depth and could let Carman earn a spot rather than giving him a spot he hasn't earned. I really believe that the offensive line is only as good as your weakest link. Good D-Lines will expose any weakness. I remember back when we had a solid line other than Eric Ghiaciuc and we refused to upgrade that spot for years. I feel like we are going to do the same thing with Carman for some reason. I also firmly believe that back injuries are very unpredictable, so we will never be able to count on him even if he plays well initially. I will always doubt that he will make it through a full season. Will he even be able to strength train properly with his bad back? I bet his value is almost nothing if we tried to trade him, he is barely backup material. I hope if we don't sign J.C. Tretter that we at least draft someone that is capable should Carman disappoint. It sucks that we are stopping short of a full rebuild of the O-Line. Especially when someone capable like J.C. Tretter is out there in free agency.

(04-17-2022, 09:37 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I wish we would sign J.C. Tretter so that we had more depth and could let Carman earn a spot rather than giving him a spot he hasn't earned.  I really believe that the offensive line is only as good as your weakest link.  Good D-Lines will expose any weakness.  I remember back when we had a solid line other than Eric Ghiaciuc and we refused to upgrade that spot for years.  I feel like we are going to do the same thing with Carman for some reason.  I also firmly believe that back injuries are very unpredictable, so we will never be able to count on him even if he plays well initially.  I will always doubt that he will make it through a full season.  Will he even be able to strength train properly with his bad back?  I bet his value is almost nothing if we tried to trade him, he is barely backup material.  I hope if we don't sign J.C. Tretter that we at least draft someone that is capable should Carman disappoint.  It sucks that we are stopping short of a full rebuild of the O-Line.  Especially when someone capable like J.C. Tretter is out there in free agency.

I could be wrong but I think that Karras is about the same as Hopkins as center goes and not much of an upgrade. But what he gives you is the ability to play guard where Hopkins did not. So I think this points to the Bengals wanting to keep there options open and allow some flexibility in the draft. I really think with how a lot of mock drafts have worked out Offensive line might be BPA at 31 so we could be keeping our options open whether it's guard or center available. 

I've also wanted the Bengals to sign another player or maybe two to open up the draft even more. But my hope is the Bengals don't know how the draft is gonna work out and when it's all said and done the can revisit the free agent market to fill any voids or add draft. But I'm completely with you on Carman. I want him to step up and be a starter but I don't want to count on that and I would rather add a potential starter and let the best ones play. I also don't think that's us giving up on Carman as even if he's not a day one starter it's extremely unlikely he's not gonna be counted on to play and potentially start this season.

(04-13-2022, 01:21 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Hubbard was drafted in the 3rd round of the 2018 draft.  From 2008 through 2018, the Bengals have drafted 14 defensive lineman: 

• Jordan Willis Good player still a rotational guy
• Carl Lawson Good player got a big contract after us
• Ryan Glasgow meh(this is a big miss. We thought he’d be better )
• Andrew Billings still playing right? Got a decent deal after us
• Marcus Hardison bust
• Will Clarke meh
• Margus Hunt meh still playing tho
• Brandon Thompson didn’t he hang around the league for a while?
• Carlos Dunlap one of our best DEs ever
• Geno Atkins our best DT ever
• Michael Johnson solid guy, pro bowler, got a huge deal after us
• Clinton McDonald meh
• Jason Shirley should’ve been better but hung around a bit after us
• Pat Sims solid rotational guy
  

Atleast 7 of those players went on to sign second contracts in the NFL.  Considering the Bengals didn't use any first round picks on the above players and several were day three picks, the hit rate on defensive lineman had been one of their strong suits.  Were you just trolling with the above post?  

I think the issue i have is we draft well in rounds 3-5 but miss on damn near all our 1st rounders especially when he draft for need. We’ve gotta draft better in the 1st 2 rounds

(04-17-2022, 09:37 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I wish we would sign J.C. Tretter so that we had more depth and could let Carman earn a spot rather than giving him a spot he hasn't earned.  I really believe that the offensive line is only as good as your weakest link.  Good D-Lines will expose any weakness.  I remember back when we had a solid line other than Eric Ghiaciuc and we refused to upgrade that spot for years.  I feel like we are going to do the same thing with Carman for some reason.  I also firmly believe that back injuries are very unpredictable, so we will never be able to count on him even if he plays well initially.  I will always doubt that he will make it through a full season.  Will he even be able to strength train properly with his bad back?  I bet his value is almost nothing if we tried to trade him, he is barely backup material.  I hope if we don't sign J.C. Tretter that we at least draft someone that is capable should Carman disappoint.  It sucks that we are stopping short of a full rebuild of the O-Line.  Especially when someone capable like J.C. Tretter is out there in free agency.

I understand this. Just hoping the Medical Staff and Pollack know more than we do and that is why we didn't sign Tretter.

It actually says a lot and if we pass on Linderbaum it will say even more about Carman's back. I just hope the coaches aren't
trying to start Carman because he was an early pick. He needs to earn it as you say.

(04-17-2022, 10:11 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I could be wrong but I think that Karras is about the same as Hopkins as center goes and not much of an upgrade. But what he gives you is the ability to play guard where Hopkins did not. So I think this points to the Bengals wanting to keep there options open and allow some flexibility in the draft. I really think with how a lot of mock drafts have worked out Offensive line might be BPA at 31 so we could be keeping our options open whether it's guard or center available. 

I've also wanted the Bengals to sign another player or maybe two to open up the draft even more. But my hope is the Bengals don't know how the draft is gonna work out and when it's all said and done the can revisit the free agent market to fill any voids or add draft. But I'm completely with you on Carman. I want him to step up and be a starter but I don't want to count on that and I would rather add a potential starter and let the best ones play. I also don't think that's us giving up on Carman as even if he's not a day one starter it's extremely unlikely he's not gonna be counted on to play and potentially start this season.

Karras is a big upgrade over Hopkins especially in run blocking where Hop was pretty terrible. But it is true that Karras is a 
much better Guard than Hopkins, even more so. But yeah, maybe after the Draft we can sign someone like Tretter if need be.

(04-18-2022, 02:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:  I just hope the coaches aren't trying to start Carman because he was an early pick. 

I can't imagine any coach would do that.  They have to win to keep their jobs.  I am pretty sure they put their best players out there and don't really care when they were drafted.

(04-18-2022, 04:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I can't imagine any coach would do that.  They have to win to keep their jobs.  I am pretty sure they put their best players out there and don't really care when they were drafted.

Hope that is the case. Best players need to start regardless of where they are picked.