Seriously, why?

He himself has said he doesn't want to be the highest paid safety in the league. Taking that into account, the Bengals can absolutely afford to take on his new contract and should pay him.

Look, I know this has been beaten to death, but hear me out...

The salary cap is set to EXPLODE in a year or two with the new TV deals kicking in, fans back in attendance, gambling money, and the amazon money coming in.

Shouldn't the Bengals be doing everything possible to sign their best players to extensions right now BEFORE the cap increases? That way they are paying guys relative to this years cap number which is smaller than the future cap number. You could almost get a discount on Bates by signing him now compared to the current cap number and before contracts are set to sky rocket.

People have this same theory about signing Burrow next off-season - why would we not apply it to Bates?

Look at Jalen Ramsey for example. The guy is the best CB in the league and signed a deal in 2020 - 100 million over 5 years with 10 million of that guaranteed. Denzel Ward who is an inferior player just got basically the same deal with the Browns with over 75 million of it guaranteed.

Do we see where this is going?

If the rumors are true and it's hung up on guaranteed money (say Bates want's 80% of it guaranteed) then the front office is truly ***** themselves. If you can't get by giving your best player on defense guaranteed money than you sure as hell aren't going to get by giving some of the best players in the NFL guaranteed money (Burrow, Chase).

Bates was franchised tagged this year.  He had an on and off season last year and his worst season statistically.  He certainly didn't come out of the gate very hot.   He even admitted a lack of focus during the first half of the season:

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2021/11/18/22784629/bengals-news-jessie-bates-admits-lack-focus

Quote:“I feel like my mind was ... Honestly, it was on other things throughout the first part of the season. I feel like I’m at a better headspace now than I was at the beginning of the season. So caught on to proving the wrong people right and the main thing I should be focusing on is proving the right people right as far as my coaches, my teammates, my family and not worry about all of the other stuff. I know that’s gonna work out, I know what type of player I am, that stuff’s gonna work out regardless, but like I said I gotta be better for this team”

The Bengals have allowed 75 points over the past two weeks. Against the Browns, Bates had one of his worst showing, totaling just five tackles. Bates has just one pass defended through eight games. He had 15 all of last season.

So my guess is they are going to let him play under the tag unless he is willing to take a more reasonable long term deal than he was expecting last season when he talked about negotiations, "I guess I haven't done enough yet to be considered one of the top safeties in this league."

My wild guess is that he is asking more than they are willing to pay him.

He wants more than the Bengals are willing to offer. It’s that simple. They’ve earned my trust over the past couple years.

(04-18-2022, 05:50 PM)Burreaux Wrote: He wants more than the Bengals are willing to offer. It’s that simple. They’ve earned my trust over the past couple years.

While I won't go as far as saying "They've earned my trust"......I do think it's a matter of Bates and the Bengals not being aligned on his worth.  

His agent wears the pants

He is not signed to a long term deal yet because of this.  .  .  

(04-18-2022, 05:50 PM)wanga Wrote: he is asking more than they are willing to pay him.

This.  .  .

(04-18-2022, 05:50 PM)Burreaux Wrote: He wants more than the Bengals are willing to offer. 

And this.  .  .

(04-18-2022, 05:53 PM)basballguy Wrote: It's a matter of Bates and the Bengals not being aligned on his worth.  

Safeties are one of the cheapest positions.
Safeties have one of the shortest NFL development times.
DBs are not consistent producers.
Jessie Bates has not been a consistent producer.
Jessie Bates play has no effect on Joe Burrow's play.
Joe Burrow's play is the biggest priority for the team/

Our FO wants to prep for Burrow and Chase as the utmost priority?

If Jamal Adams got 4 years 70 million 38 guaranteed Bates is probably around 4 years 60 mill with 30 guaranteed. I honestly wanna say 2 years 30 million is my sweet spot for him because it allows him to get another huge deal if he plays well but if i were him i wouldn’t want a 2 year deal.

(04-18-2022, 06:05 PM)puddycat Wrote: Jessie Bates play has no effect on Joe Burrow's play.
Joe Burrow's play is the biggest priority for the team/

Then why are we paying our D-line twice as much as our O-line?

(04-18-2022, 05:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously, why?

He himself has said he doesn't want to be the highest paid safety in the league. Taking that into account, the Bengals can absolutely afford to take on his new contract and should pay him.

Look, I know this has been beaten to death, but hear me out...

The salary cap is set to EXPLODE in a year or two with the new TV deals kicking in, fans back in attendance, gambling money, and the amazon money coming in.

Shouldn't the Bengals be doing everything possible to sign their best players to extensions right now BEFORE the cap increases? That way they are paying guys relative to this years cap number which is smaller than the future cap number. You could almost get a discount on Bates by signing him now compared to the current cap number and before contracts are set to sky rocket.

People have this same theory about signing Burrow next off-season - why would we not apply it to Bates?

Look at Jalen Ramsey for example. The guy is the best CB in the league and signed a deal in 2020 - 100 million over 5 years with 10 million of that guaranteed. Denzel Ward who is an inferior player just got basically the same deal with the Browns with over 75 million of it guaranteed.

Do we see where this is going?

If the rumors are true and it's hung up on guaranteed money (say Bates want's 80% of it guaranteed) then the front office is truly ***** themselves. If you can't get by giving your best player on defense guaranteed money than you sure as hell aren't going to get by giving some of the best players in the NFL guaranteed money (Burrow, Chase).

I must have missed where Bates said he didn't want to be the highest paid safety. I had hoped that wasn't the case. I'm all for paying him as he is liked by a lot of the players and seems to be a team leader. He is also pretty steady with his play and in my eyes had earned another contract. I does feel like the Bengals are not as creative with they're contracts as other teams. I also think we could find ourselves in a bad spot with him if we let it ride until after the draft. If we don't draft a safety his price isn't going down but if we draft an heir apparent early than that could cause it's own drama. 

If I had my way I would say hopefully we can draft a guy like Nick Cross a safety that can get on the field this year but probably fills more of the Vonn Bell role going forward. Then if we get thru the rest of the draft filling most of our areas of concern we can use some of our remaining cap space on a Bates deal. At least as far as if we want the larger cap hit in year 1.

(04-18-2022, 05:18 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously, why?

He himself has said he doesn't want to be the highest paid safety in the league. Taking that into account, the Bengals can absolutely afford to take on his new contract and should pay him.

Look, I know this has been beaten to death, but hear me out...

The salary cap is set to EXPLODE in a year or two with the new TV deals kicking in, fans back in attendance, gambling money, and the amazon money coming in.

Shouldn't the Bengals be doing everything possible to sign their best players to extensions right now BEFORE the cap increases? That way they are paying guys relative to this years cap number which is smaller than the future cap number. You could almost get a discount on Bates by signing him now compared to the current cap number and before contracts are set to sky rocket.

People have this same theory about signing Burrow next off-season - why would we not apply it to Bates?

Look at Jalen Ramsey for example. The guy is the best CB in the league and signed a deal in 2020 - 100 million over 5 years with 10 million of that guaranteed. Denzel Ward who is an inferior player just got basically the same deal with the Browns with over 75 million of it guaranteed.

Do we see where this is going?

If the rumors are true and it's hung up on guaranteed money (say Bates want's 80% of it guaranteed) then the front office is truly ***** themselves. If you can't get by giving your best player on defense guaranteed money than you sure as hell aren't going to get by giving some of the best players in the NFL guaranteed money (Burrow, Chase).

Maybe your answer is in your post, but we don't know since we have one statement from Bates about not highest paid, but no mention of how much we wants or how much is guaranteed.

Personally I think he is comparable to Tyler Mathieu who is a free agent right now. Tyler finds a home and Bengals and Bates then know a close value. Bengals have until July to lock him up on a new contract and as right now are in great shape with cap money, so I don't see an urgency on the part of FO needed yet. Also, he hurt himself in 2021, he did not play as a top 5 safety during the regular season, inconsistency will never get a player paid and while he was great in the playoffs, frankly he was just good during the regular season.

I don't buy the BS he lacked motivation due to not getting a new contract, winners prove others wrong and prove every game ther team needs them to win games, he did not do that in 2021 which was very disappointing.

I also wanted to say on the guaranteed money. I get why players want the security but I do wish they would look at the Bengals track record. They almost always let a contract play out unless a player just can't get on the field like Wayne's. I mean how much did Wayne's get of his 42 million dollar contract and he could barely play.

(04-18-2022, 06:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Maybe your answer is in your post, but we don't know since we have one statement from Bates about not highest paid, but no mention of how much we wants or how much is guaranteed.

Personally I think he is comparable to Tyler Mathieu who is a free agent right now. Tyler finds a home and Bengals and Bates then know a close value. Bengals have until July to lock him up on a new contract and as right now are in great shape with cap money, so I don't see an urgency on the part of FO needed yet. Also, he hurt himself in 2021, he did not play as a top 5 safety during the regular season, inconsistency will never get a player paid and while he was great in the playoffs, frankly he was just good during the regular season.

I don't buy the BS he lacked motivation due to not getting a new contract, winners prove others wrong and prove every game ther team needs them to win games, he did not do that in 2021 which was very disappointing.

This is the part I do understand with Bates. I mean it's no different than any other job. If your coming to work and doing everything they ask of you and you see other people getting increases while your not moral is gonna go down. It's just that simple. 

I've seen nothing that states Bates has signed his franchise tag and that's the real question. What does he hope to achieve? The Bengals can pull the tag at any time before Bates signs it. Dude goes out and gets hurt tomorrow..we can pull back the tag.

(04-18-2022, 06:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've seen nothing that states Bates has signed his franchise tag and that's the real question. What does he hope to achieve? The Bengals can pull the tag at any time before Bates signs it. Dude goes out and gets hurt tomorrow..we can pull back the tag.

We have until July 15th to sign him to a long term deal.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-franchise-tag-meaning-deadlines-values-rules-2022/zl129ixw0r3zlvglaiasuggp

I agree bfine, he is risking injury and job security for 2022 and also risking the Bengals drafting his replacement, they could draft a safety with pick #31 and then rescind the franchise tag immediately if they desire.

All of this is the business side many fans just don't like. But Bengals FO is in a position of strength, they offering to pay him a lot of money (top5 safety money) in 2022. I hope both sides can work it out. I like Bates, but not been impressed with hos big play ability or consistency which is a real concern for me to sign a guy long term. But, I would not be unhappy if the price is right for the team.

(04-18-2022, 06:30 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: This is the part I do understand with Bates. I mean it's no different than any other job. If your coming to work and doing everything they ask of you and you see other people getting increases while your not moral is gonna go down. It's just that simple. 

For the record, he is getting a huge one year increase to play in 2022.

It is not unusual for franchise-tagged players not to re-sign until June or July. The July deadline tends to light a fire under negotiations. Once they decided to franchise tag him immediate attention turned to the completion of free agency and the upcoming draft. After the draft and signing of the UDFAs, they will then turn their attention back to Bates and other players with pesky contract issues

(04-18-2022, 06:18 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I must have missed where Bates said he didn't want to be the highest paid safety. I had hoped that wasn't the case. I'm all for paying him as he is liked by a lot of the players and seems to be a team leader. He is also pretty steady with his play and in my eyes had earned another contract. I does feel like the Bengals are not as creative with they're contracts as other teams. I also think we could find ourselves in a bad spot with him if we let it ride until after the draft. If we don't draft a safety his price isn't going down but if we draft an heir apparent early than that could cause it's own drama. 

If I had my way I would say hopefully we can draft a guy like Nick Cross a safety that can get on the field this year but probably fills more of the Vonn Bell role going forward. Then if we get thru the rest of the draft filling most of our areas of concern we can use some of our remaining cap space on a Bates deal. At least as far as if we want the larger cap hit in year 1.

Love Nick Cross, he can play both SS and FS, lots of speed and a hitter.  Guy likes to tackle... I'm all for grabbing him.