So I’m not usually this guy but the Raiders are shopping Darren Waller. I’m not a huge, quick go trade for that guy but LV can have pick 31 for Waller and a 3rd or 4th all day.

You can never have too many good players, but you have to weigh the costs. Waller's current contract is quite palatable, but he only has 2 years left on it. Not sure you should trade a number one pick (even a late one) for that situation. Not sure of his situation anyway. Is he wanting a new contract? If so, that would essentially make it undoable.

Not to mention, I have a feeling Hurst will open some eyes this season- provided he stays healthy.

I'd give a 4th at the highest. Not trying to break the bank when we just got our TE. Yes, I'm confident in Hurst. I'd take a shot with that 4th or 5th pick on Kolar if that's not high enough for Waller. Great player, I just think we have bigger needs.

Here is the thing, a SB window can slam shit quick and Zach kind of alluded to such today in his press conference. Darren Waller is better than anyone in this draft most likely, you can argue long term value and such but he will produce more in a short period of time than anyone we take at 31. If we are trying to maximize our chances of actually winning a SB you make moves now.

Other point, pick 31 for Waller AND a 3rd would be getting Waller for a 2nd which is the rumored value of him. The reason I like pick 31 for Waller and a 3rd is we’d get a swing still with a solid pick to still address an area. This honestly is the same thing the Chiefs did last year so I do think it’s interesting how people react. The chiefs signed some fringe dudes on the O line (not Thuney, they swung at other vets as well) but then did a similar deal for Brown and everyone drooled about how they attacked a need.

Sounds like the Packers are interested. It would be kind of wild if those two teams basically end up swapping their top weapons.

I think the Bengals are content on Hurst being TE1 for this season and then seeing how the draft works out. I can't see them making any trades or moves for another TE.

(04-25-2022, 10:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Sounds like the Packers are interested. It would be kind of wild if those two teams basically end up swapping their top weapons.

There is a rumor he was originally a part of the deal to move Adams but a weird rule around not being able to include tagged players in deals with non tagged players prevented it.

TE just isn’t thT big a need to give pick 31 for. I’d give pick 31 for a CB or a linemen in a second.

(04-25-2022, 08:33 PM)Au165 Wrote: So I’m not usually this guy but the Raiders are shopping Darren Waller. I’m not a huge, quick go trade for that guy but LV can have pick 31 for Waller and a 3rd or 4th all day.

I wouldn't give that for Waller.  He's had two years of high end production, but insane target share that he won't come close to getting here to do it.  Yards/Target has steadily declined the last 3 years.  Bad TD total 2 of 3 years as a starter.  He also gets banged up a lot.  For a Day 3 pick?  Sure.  Day 1 or 2?  No way.

I hesitate saying yes, only because it's on offense and there are already loads of weapons there.

I think I'd be quicker to pull the trigger if it's a top 5 player at a position on defense like CB, 3T, or edge (but then the asking price would likely go up).

I can't fathom why on earth the Raiders would get rid of him. Did they not witness the magic of the Chiefs for several years with the top TE and a top 5 WR combo? Not to mention he's been their best player for awhile now. Makes no sense. I'm guessing he needs a new contract and they don't want to pay him, but that is a huge mis-step from the Raiders.

I'd like to see the Packers or Vikings pick him up. There's no way he ends up here. We can't afford him. And it's not a huge need for us anyway.

(04-25-2022, 10:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: Here is the thing, a SB window can slam shit quick and Zach kind of alluded to such today in his press conference. Darren Waller is better than anyone in this draft most likely, you can argue long term value and such but he will produce more in a short period of time than anyone we take at 31. If we are trying to maximize our chances of actually winning a SB you make moves now.

Other point, pick 31 for Waller AND a 3rd would be getting Waller for a 2nd which is the rumored value of him. The reason I like pick 31 for Waller and a 3rd is we’d get a swing still with a solid pick to still address an area. This honestly is the same thing the Chiefs did last year so I do think it’s interesting how people react. The chiefs signed some fringe dudes on the O line (not Thuney, they swung at other vets as well) but then did a similar deal for Brown and everyone drooled about how they attacked a need.

Can he get to the QB from the 3T?  I get that Waller would be a great addition to the offense, but the Bengals need to round out other spots on the roster, before padding the offensive weapons cache.

I looked on a couple of sites and did not see where Raiders were shopping Waller. Is there a link? If they are shopping him, he is a load and a match up nightmare. But the issue is we can't keep paying skilled players top dollars (WR, RB) and also pay top dollars to OL. We get a break now with Burrow, Chase and Higgins, but that will soo n change.

I want the investment to be in setting a strong foundation for both the OL and DL, we can have all the greatest skill players, but without also superior blocking, it gets blown up and Joe ends on his back.

(04-25-2022, 08:33 PM)Au165 Wrote: So I’m not usually this guy but the Raiders are shopping Darren Waller. I’m not a huge, quick go trade for that guy but LV can have pick 31 for Waller and a 3rd or 4th all day.

One other great thing about Waller - His cap hit is incredibly team-friendly for his production.

2022 - $6.843 mill
2023 - $7.0 mill

That's 100% worth 31st overall plus a 3rd or 4th.
Bengals have more than enough cap space to cover Waller's contract.

(04-26-2022, 09:50 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Can he get to the QB from the 3T?  I get that Waller would be a great addition to the offense, but the Bengals need to round out other spots on the roster, before padding the offensive weapons cache.

Bengals can get a fine 3T and CB in Rds 2-4.
Waller is better than any TE in this draft class and would be under contract through 2023.

(04-25-2022, 10:45 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I think the Bengals are content on Hurst being TE1 for this season and then seeing how the draft works out.    I can't see them making any trades or moves for another TE.

Has Hurst Established himself as a #1 TE for any of the teams he already played for?

(04-26-2022, 10:52 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals can get a fine 3T and CB in Rds 2-4.
Waller is better than any TE in this draft class and would be under contract through 2023.

It's really weird because we have our starting, well paid, 3T already on the roster and people act like we are desperate to find one. For what we are paying Hill he needs to take more snaps, but I also fully expect sample and Hubbard to take some of them on pass rushing downs. Even then if we are just looking for snap eaters we can find a vet post draft to do so but it's weird to me we act like 3T is such a massive need when we just paid one.

CB would be a place where if the right one fell it would be great but frankly I am not convinced the guys in the 2nd round are going to be that much different then the ones sitting there at 31. After the top 2 or 3 there is a group of 4 or 5 guys who all have their positives and negatives.

We just lost to a team who saw value in buying elite vets to win now. People still think we have this massive SB window because Burrow is young but those windows slam shut quickly for a multitude of reasons so if you aren't doing everything to win in the next two years you very well may miss the entire window.

(04-26-2022, 11:02 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Has Hurst Established himself as a #1 TE for any of the teams he already played for?

He has 1,300 yards in 4 years...

Doesn't look like the Raiders are actually shopping Waller and it was just the Packers asking and being told no, but I do always find it interesting how people can rationalize how a really good player isn't that good, and how a extremely replaceable player is all the Bengals need because he's currently wearing a Bengals uniform (but we'd probably make fun of a division rival having him as their player because then he'd be replaceable AND not in a Bengals uniform).

(04-26-2022, 11:07 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Doesn't look like the Raiders are actually shopping Waller and it was just the Packers asking and being told no, but I do always find it interesting how people can rationalize how a really good player isn't that good, and how a extremely replaceable player is all the Bengals need because he's currently wearing a Bengals uniform (but we'd probably make fun of a division rival having him as their player because then he'd be replaceable AND not in a Bengals uniform).

Matt Miller said he has heard for weeks the Raiders were shopping him to see what his value was. That plus the other report from Nagler, who is pretty good, makes me think there is at least some truth to it.

As for the second part...go back and look at the thread about the Raiders playoff game and how scared people were of him and now he is just a dude. Really weird.