(04-27-2022, 12:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: WJ3 and Dennard had value. The others though....yikes. 

I firmly believe that over the last 15 years, the 3 biggest setbacks to this Franchise were: 

Palmer Knee Injury 

The 2014-2018 1st round Draft Run 

And the most crippling; Drafting and Starting Andy Dalton for 9 years like he was a Franchise QB, when he was a backup. 

With Karras contract he isn't a must start If we draft Linderbaum He may become our top backup if Carmen impresses.

(04-27-2022, 02:13 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I firmly believe that over the last 15 years, the 3 biggest setbacks to this Franchise were: 

Palmer Knee Injury 

The 2014-2018 1st round Draft Run 

And the most crippling; Drafting and Starting Andy Dalton for 9 years like he was a Franchise QB, when he was a backup. 

Palmer's knee injury was over 15 years ago, and Dalton was certainly starter level his entire stay in Cincy.  

As to the drafts, the 2015 draft was especially crippling.

(04-27-2022, 02:24 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Palmer's knee injury was over 15 years ago, and Dalton was certainly starter level his entire stay in Cincy.  

It was 2006, so yes 16 years ago.  Ya got me. 

Still stands up

Linderbaum
Booth
Elam

(04-27-2022, 02:13 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I firmly believe that over the last 15 years, the 3 biggest setbacks to this Franchise were: 

Palmer Knee Injury 

The 2014-2018 1st round Draft Run 

And the most crippling; Drafting and Starting Andy Dalton for 9 years like he was a Franchise QB, when he was a backup. 

To be fair they developed a super bowl caliber team around Dalton. If he didn't get hurt that year no telling what that team would have done. 

(04-27-2022, 02:13 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I firmly believe that over the last 15 years, the 3 biggest setbacks to this Franchise were: 

Palmer Knee Injury 

Other than losing one playoff game in '05 his knee injury was not even a factor.  He started every game in 2006 and was a top 5 QB in the league.

(04-27-2022, 02:13 PM)ATOTR Wrote: The 2014-2018 1st round Draft Run 

Dead on here.  Price, Ross, and Ogbuehi were horrible.  Dennard and Jackson had talent but could not stay healthy.  You cold actually go back another year because as good as Eifert was we only got ONE really good year out of him.  He was not a bust talent wise, but he was a bust based on career production.  He averaged 26 receptions for 307 yards in his 7 years with the Bengals. 

(04-27-2022, 02:13 PM)ATOTR Wrote: And the most crippling; Drafting and Starting Andy Dalton for 9 years like he was a Franchise QB, when he was a backup. 

Andy bottomed out his last year with the Bengals but over his first 8 seasons he was an average starter.  Not close to "back up".

But if you had said "Dalton was just barely good enough not to get replaced" I could see your point.  Dalton was winning so many games that we never drafted close to the top 10 where you can get a good QB, and we always had holes in our roster because we did not sign free agents back then.  So we could not waste a first round pick on a QB project that might have developed after sitting a year or two behind Andy. 

(04-27-2022, 02:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: To be fair they developed a super bowl caliber team around Dalton. If he didn't get hurt that year no telling what that team would have done. 

You mean the year of the playoff meltdown? They should have won a playoff game with McCarron and then who knows how far we could have gone, especially since I think Dalton would have been healthy the next game.

(04-27-2022, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Other than losing one playoff game in '05 his knee injury was not even a factor.  He started every game in 2006 and was a top 5 QB in the league.

You always use stats like they tell the entire story. I think I've even made these points with you when you posted the same thing before.

Palmer wasn't following through on his throws that year whenever someone would get even remotely near his knee, which he even admitted that he worked on and improved on in the offseason after 2006. 

He had good stats that year but they could have been a lot better because the knee injury was definitely a factor.

(04-27-2022, 02:13 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I firmly believe that over the last 15 years, the 3 biggest setbacks to this Franchise were: 

Palmer Knee Injury 

The 2014-2018 1st round Draft Run 

And the most crippling; Drafting and Starting Andy Dalton for 9 years like he was a Franchise QB, when he was a backup. 

This was really the downfall of the Marvin Era.
Dennard (meh at best)
Ogbuehi (bust)
WJ3 (solid)
Ross (bust)
Price (bust)

They didn't really need any of those guys to be starters immediately other than Price, but as the roster started to turn over and got older, they really needed at least a few of these guys to turn into quality starters.

I guess the positive thing though is that if it wasn't for the team declining 2016-2018, Marvin might still be the HC and Bengals wouldn't have gotten Burrow and Chase.

(04-27-2022, 02:18 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: With Karras contract he isn't a must start If we draft Linderbaum He may become our top backup if Carmen impresses.

Karras is your starter at LG if Linderbaum comes in and shows he's capable of starting and playing at a high level.

(04-27-2022, 02:13 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I firmly believe that over the last 15 years, the 3 biggest setbacks to this Franchise were: 

Palmer Knee Injury 

The 2014-2018 1st round Draft Run 

And the most crippling; Drafting and Starting Andy Dalton for 9 years like he was a Franchise QB, when he was a backup. 

There have been many, but Andy Dalton wasn't one of the them.  You can't call a guy a "set-back" when he took the team to the playoffs as often as he did.

The 2014-2018 drafts were bad, but the real setback during that time was letting Whit and Zeitler walk and using picks on Fisher and Ced.

The largest, by far, setback for this franchise was drafting Akili Smith instead of taking the Saints offer.

(04-27-2022, 08:58 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: There have been many, but Andy Dalton wasn't one of the them.  You can't call a guy a "set-back" when he took the team to the playoffs as often as he did.

The 2014-2018 drafts were bad, but the real setback during that time was letting Whit and Zeitler walk and using picks on Fisher and Ced.

The largest, by far, setback for this franchise was drafting Akili Smith instead of taking the Saints offer.

Letting Bill Walsh get away was pretty franchise altering.

(04-27-2022, 02:18 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: With Karras contract he isn't a must start If we draft Linderbaum He may become our top backup if Carmen impresses.

If they draft Linderbaum then Carman is going to the bench guaranteed.

(04-26-2022, 11:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is really impossible to say until the pick comes up and we see who is available.

But a big thing to consider is that we are no longer in rebuilding mode with holes all over our roster.  I used to be a big proponent of trading back.  Especially when we had a top ten pick and might get a lot back in return.  But picking at 31 with our current roster I'd generally be in favor of staying put.   

As I said before, it depends on who is available when we are on the clock and how much another team will offer. 

If we don't have any holes wouldn't the prudent move be to trade back and accumulate extra picks for depth?  If we ended up with 3 or 4 third round picks wouldn't those be quality depth?  At 31 though you might get a ready-to-start type player, but that would have to be at LG or C.  This would suggest Linderbaum or someone like Green.

(04-27-2022, 09:44 PM)pulses Wrote: If they draft Linderbaum then Carman is going to the bench guaranteed.

For sure, it will tell a lot if Linderbaum is there as I keep saying. If we draft him, there is a problem with Carman's back.

If we don't it says the medical staff thinks Carman's back will recover, the coaches think Karras is the answer at Center and that
Linderbaum doesn't fit our new scheme with our new big, power we brought in in Free Agency.

I think we trade back into the 2nd and grab a dude like Logan Hall Center Houston best pass rushing DT in the Draft arguably.

Then Draft Zyon McCollum and Daniel Bellinger who are very talented and versatile at positions of need. Just my thoughts this 
close to Draft day after you Pulses and others really giving out useful information. Thanks.

(04-27-2022, 10:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For sure, it will tell a lot if Linderbaum is there as I keep saying. If we draft him, there is a problem with Carman's back.

If we don't it says the medical staff thinks Carman's back will recover, the coaches think Karras is the answer at Center and that
Linderbaum doesn't fit our new scheme with our new big, power we brought in in Free Agency.

I think we trade back into the 2nd and grab a dude like Logan Hall Center Houston best pass rushing DT in the Draft arguably.

Then Draft Zyon McCollum and Daniel Bellinger who are very talented and versatile at positions of need. Just my thoughts this 
close to Draft day after you Pulses and others really giving out useful information. Thanks.

 I've saw recently the last few days that McCollum is getting 4th round grades so he has slipped a little. We've had some visits with some late guys who might be sneaky good. Check out Jaquarii Roberson WR Wake Forest can play inside and outside.  Also check out Zyon Gilbert CB he'll take a little work but could be a gem in a year or two.

Jaquarii Roberson 6'1 186 4.43 forty  40.5 vertical   10'11 broad jump 4.18 shuttle and 6.88 3 cone  5th or 6th grade.
Quick receiver who displays good route recognition, comes back to the ball to make himself an available target, and consistently extends his hands to make the reception away from his frame. Tracks the pass in the air, makes the difficult catch in a crowd, and snatches the ball away from defenders. Quickly gets into pass routes, follows his quarterback across the field, and works hard. Slippery and shows the ability to create yardage handling the ball.

Zyon Gilbert  6'0  191  4.40 forty 40.0 vertical  11'6 broad jump  4.29 shuttle 7.34 3 cone UDFA  his broad jump would have been number 1 overall at the combine.  Needs to bulk up and work on his pursuit skills and aggressiveness attacking ball carriers. Very feisty and physical.

(04-27-2022, 11:55 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think Lap sniffed out Jon Ross as well. That pick came out of nowhere...that was an impressive call by Lap. 

He also mentioned Ogbuehi right before the 2015 draft.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lap's predictions start to fall off now with the absence of an actual draft board.

(04-27-2022, 10:02 PM)EatonFan Wrote: If we don't have any holes wouldn't the prudent move be to trade back and accumulate extra picks for depth?  If we ended up with 3 or 4 third round picks wouldn't those be quality depth?  At 31 though you might get a ready-to-start type player, but that would have to be at LG or C.  This would suggest Linderbaum or someone like Green.

Green has been slipping because of knee issues and he doesn't really fit our scheme anyways.

(04-27-2022, 09:44 PM)pulses Wrote: If they draft Linderbaum then Carman is going to the bench guaranteed.

If they draft Linderbaum it is a waste. He does not have the size to transition well to the NFL. He got by in college with technique. In the NFL, every starting DT understands leverage and has technique.

(04-27-2022, 02:13 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I firmly believe that over the last 15 years, the 3 biggest setbacks to this Franchise were: 

Palmer Knee Injury 

The 2014-2018 1st round Draft Run 

And the most crippling; Drafting and Starting Andy Dalton for 9 years like he was a Franchise QB, when he was a backup. 

You forgot to include not starting AJM...