(05-21-2022, 01:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But apparently, that;s not what we're discussing...Don't ask me what we are discussing because it changes, 

It has not changed at all.

I think all 5 of the O-line positions are important.

You think that the 4 current starters at the other positions are good enough that it does not matter how bad our LG is. I was just confused because at first you cited Quinton Spain starting as a rookie to support your position.  But clearly the Titans O-line with Spain was very bad.  So that did not make a lot of sense to me.

(05-21-2022, 03:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It has not changed at all.

I think all 5 of the O-line positions are important.

You think that the 4 current starters at the other positions are good enough that it does not matter how bad our LG is. I was just confused because at first you cited Quinton Spain starting as a rookie to support your position.  But clearly the Titans O-line with Spain was very bad.  So that did not make a lot of sense to me.

Then clearly state what is your point. I quoted your original post, but that turned out to not be the point. Ocho tried to state what you meant

Of course all 5 oline positions are important; you're not changing keeping the same point again are you?

I also cited The Rams, The Packers, and The Chiefs. If you would focus on the entire post(s) and not just a portion you can take issue with perhaps it would ease your confusion. 

(05-21-2022, 03:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  I quoted your original post, but that turned out to not be the point. 

My original post was exactly what I meant and that has never changed.

You can try to argue against it but don't act like I have changed my position.  I believe that if Volson (or any other rookie taken int he 4th round or later) starts for us this year then we will have a problem with our O-line.

(05-21-2022, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My original post was exactly what I meant and that has never changed.

You can try to argue against it but don't act like I have changed my position.  I believe that if Volson (or any other rookie taken int he 4th round or later) starts for us this year then we will have a problem with our O-line.

And I did argue against it and that's when the goalpost moved.

KC don't count because Smith should have been drafted earlier

GB don't count because Newman didn't rate too good according to PFF

LA don't count....well I'm not sure why...but they don't. 

By most people's standards when you can cite 3 of the final 8 (2 of the final 4) NFL teams from just last year, then the point can be conceded; regardless what you "believe"

But I'm done with this.....You're right

(05-20-2022, 04:31 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You got to read Fred. I said the term used was not elaborated on. I said the others as speculation what they meant. But 1,000,000 % this person knows. And the conversation with a blue ribbon source you don’t drill them

Actually for all the great inside information you claim to have pretty much none of it has turned out to be true.

And basically your "inside information" is 100% useless when you have no clue what it even means.

"I have no idea what "babied" means, but I guarantee it happened."

(05-21-2022, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And I did argue against it and that's when the goalpost moved.

KC don't count because Smith should have been drafted earlier

GB don't count because Newman didn't rate too good according to PFF

LA don't count....well I'm not sure why...but they don't. 

By most people's standards when you can cite 3 of the final 8 (2 of the final 4) NFL teams from just last year, then the point can be conceded; regardless what you "believe"

But I'm done with this.....You're right

Rams did not have a rookie starting on their O-line.  When Edawards started as a rookie they did not even make the playoffs.

Chiefs do not count because if we had drafted Trey Smith I would be agreeing with you, but since we don't have Trey Smith to start for us this year you don't have a point.

And when we get to Green Bay that illustrates the difference we are having.  You think that our four other starters are good enough that it does not matter how bad our LG plays.  I disagree.  

I think that if you have a problem at LG then you have a problem with your O-line.  You don't.  I realize you kind of muddied the waters regarding your position when you cited Quentin Spain to support it, but I think you have your story straight now.

(05-21-2022, 04:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually for all the great inside information you claim to have pretty much none of it has turned out to be true.

And basically your "inside information" is 100% useless when you have no clue what it even means.

"I have no idea what "babied" means, but I guarantee it happened."

I can’t help you Fred. What’s been wrong? My opinion can sure be wrong but my source impossible. Doesn’t mean 95% isn’t my opinion. And I’ve told you the word used “babied” wasn’t my term but theirs and they didn’t elaborate nor did I drill them for clarification

(05-21-2022, 04:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Rams did not have a rookie starting on their O-line.  When Edawards started as a rookie they did not even make the playoffs.

Chiefs do not count because if we had drafted Trey Smith I would be agreeing with you, but since we don't have Trey Smith to start for us this year you don't have a point.

And when we get to Green Bay that illustrates the difference we are having.  You think that our four other starters are good enough that it does not matter how bad our LG plays.  I disagree.  

I think that if you have a problem at LG then you have a problem with your O-line.  You don't.  I realize you kind of muddied the waters regarding your position when you cited Quentin Spain to support it, but I think you have your story straight now.

Yep the Rams only went 9-7 when Edwards was a rookie

As I said: KC and GB don't count because you say so and now we know why The team who started a late round rookie and went to the Superbowl in 2 of the following 4 years don't count...cause they "only" went 9-7 when he was a rookie. Obviously "In Big Trouble". AKA...because you say so.

Spain muddies nothing. I simply pointed out that 3 of the final 4 teams this year have starting interior olinemen that were drafted in the 4th round or later who started as rookies. You asserted Spain "don't count" because Titans weren't very good his Rookie year. So I conceded the point (something rational folks often do). 

Speaking of Spain...Don't you have some sort of sig bet concerning him? 

(05-21-2022, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The team who started a late round rookie and went to the Superbowl in 2 of the following 4 years don't count...cause they "only" went 9-7 when he was a rookie. Obviously "In Big Trouble". AKA...because you say so.

Rams have made the playoffs 4of the last 5 years.  Only time they didn't was when Edwards started.

If the Bengal only win 9 games and miss the playoffs I am going to say there was a "problem".  And I think most of the fans here will agree with me.

(05-21-2022, 04:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Speaking of Spain...Don't you have some sort of sig bet concerning him? 

Yes.  I said he would be signed to start for some team.

(05-21-2022, 04:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Chiefs do not count because if we had drafted Trey Smith I would be agreeing with you, but since we don't have Trey Smith to start for us this year you don't have a point.

Not sure why Trey Smith doesn't count. 
Fits the original criteria perfectly. Should he have been drafted higher? in hindsight yes, but in reality he wasn't. So trying to put your little DQ's on there is nothing more than you moving the chains to force your statement to be true.

Always an exception and usually you are the one that's pushing the exceptions on everyone else. 

(05-21-2022, 06:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Not sure why Trey Smith doesn't count. 
Fits the original criteria perfectly. Should he have been drafted higher? in hindsight yes, but in reality he wasn't. So trying to put your little DQ's on there is nothing more than you moving the chains to force your statement to be true.

Always an exception and usually you are the one that's pushing the exceptions on everyone else. 

No joke. Fred lives on an island with his thoughts

(05-21-2022, 06:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Not sure why Trey Smith doesn't count. 

Okay, ignore reality if it makes you feel superior. But the Bengals won't have Trey smith to start for us this year.

He doesn't count because we don't have him.

(05-21-2022, 09:10 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: No joke. Fred lives on an island with his thoughts

And apparently that island is in your head.

(05-21-2022, 09:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And apparently that island is in your head.

I’m the one living rent free

(05-21-2022, 09:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay, ignore reality if it makes you feel superior. But the Bengals won't have Trey smith to start for us this year.

He doesn't count because we don't have him.

Examples have been provided where a 4th or higher drafted OL has played on an OL and did ok.

How do you know that Volson will/won't be the next T. Smith?  Are you just basing that purely on "where" he was drafted?

He was expected him to be a late 2nd day pick or early day 3 pick. I guess we got good value with him being a late 4th round pick.

Doesn't matter though, I still want Carman to take the job and not let it go, but if he fails, at least we have a potentially decent player to shuffle out there.

(05-21-2022, 10:15 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: How do you know that Volson will/won't be the next T. Smith?  Are you just basing that purely on "where" he was drafted?

I am a UT fan.  Trey Smith was the #1 ranked high school recruit in the nation.  I watched him start at LT as a FRESHMAN and earn Second Team All-SEC.  His career was sidetracked by blood clot issues.  If he stays healthy he can be one of the best offensive linemen in the NFL.

I am not saying that Volson will never be a good player.  We have already talked about Geno Atkins and Clint Boling.  In fact I am going to drop this now because I can see it turning into a "Fred hates Volson" false narrative like we have seen before.

(05-21-2022, 06:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Not sure why Trey Smith doesn't count. 
Fits the original criteria perfectly. Should he have been drafted higher? in hindsight yes, but in reality he wasn't. So trying to put your little DQ's on there is nothing more than you moving the chains to force your statement to be true.

Always an exception and usually you are the one that's pushing the exceptions on everyone else. 

Trey doesn't count because Fred said if we start a 4th round rookie at interior oline "we're in trouble". 

Trey was drafted AFTER the 4th round, so obviously he doesn't count. Quit ignoring reality.. 

The Green Bay guy doesn't count because he didn't score well in PFF, so quit ignoring reality

The LA guy doesn't count because he started as a rookie on a 9-7 team, so quit ignoring reality.

The only reality that matters is what Fred says..and he says if we start a 4th RD rookie we're in big trouble, because....he says so. 

(05-21-2022, 10:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am a UT fan.  Trey Smith was the #1 ranked high school recruit in the nation.  I watched him start at LT as a FRESHMAN and earn Second Team All-SEC.  His career was sidetracked by blood clot issues.  If he stays healthy he can be one of the best offensive linemen in the NFL.

I am not saying that Volson will never be a good player.  We have already talked about Geno Atkins and Clint Boling.  In fact I am going to drop this now because I can see it turning into a "Fred hates Volson" false narrative like we have seen before.

New one...Trey doesn't count as a 4th round or later pick because Fred is a UT fan...

(05-21-2022, 10:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: New one...Trey doesn't count as a 4th round or later pick because Fred is a UT fan...

Well Fred’s a Vols fan… figures neither are relevant lol