(05-31-2022, 05:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I get what you are saying.  You can't have all of your LBs light enough to play safety or all of your RBs small and quick enough to line up at WR.  Nothing wrong with "one trich ponies" when you just have to have that one trick.

Good thing is that no NFL team currently runs a no huddle offense.  So except at the ends of the half there is not a big concern with not being able to sub players freely.

Eh, I think every NFL team runs a no huddle Offense at some point.

Would be stupid not to. Lots of Defenses struggle with the no huddle as it doesn't allow certain players to get off the
field if they are tired or there is a clear mismatch on the field.

(05-31-2022, 05:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, I think every NFL team runs a no huddle Offense at some point.

Other than at the ends of the halves it is pretty rare.  Nothing any team does on a regular basis.

(05-31-2022, 05:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Other than at the ends of the halves it is pretty rare.  Nothing any team does on a regular basis.

Wish we ran the no huddle more honestly. 

Burrow seems to be really comfortable in the no huddle and it keeps Defenses on their heels.

(05-31-2022, 05:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wish we ran the no huddle more honestly. 

Burrow seems to be really comfortable in the no huddle and it keeps Defenses on their heels.

  
It really can be an effective weapon.  It keeps the defense from being able to make substitutions into special packages.

To be honest, if they don't use it then they are wasting some of Joe's skills.  He is perfect for the no-huddle.

(05-31-2022, 06:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote:   
It really can be an effective weapon.  It keeps the defense from being able to make substitutions into special packages.

To be honest, if they don't use it then they are wasting some of Joe's skills.  He is perfect for the no-huddle.

Completely agree with you here Fred. Yes, Burrow is smart which is the main thing you want in a no-huddle QB.

He is also extremely accurate, both of these traits make him ideal for the no-huddle.

(05-31-2022, 06:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree with you here Fred. Yes, Burrow is smart which is the main thing you want in a no-huddle QB.

He is also extremely accurate, both of these traits make him ideal for the no-huddle.

Obviously the intelligence is the most important thing.  But beyond that I was thinking more about his calm demeanor.  

There is a lot to be said for "fiery" QBs, but running a hurry-up offense requires a cool head.

(05-31-2022, 10:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Obviously the intelligence is the most important thing.  But beyond that I was thinking more about his calm demeanor.  

There is a lot to be said for "fiery" QBs, but running a hurry-up offense requires a cool head.

True, there is a reason people have compared him to Joe "Cool" Montana.

When is it too much?

Versatility is nice in a pinch, but you also need specialized
Players to get the most in certain positions.

(05-27-2022, 06:45 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Hurst and CJ both ran a 4.6 but the athleticism isnt close.  CJ was always stiff.  

Hayden Hurst Was Faster Than Any Raven

Hurst - 4.67
Uzomah - 4.62

Uzomah was actually the better athlete+measurables overall, he was just very raw coming out of Auburn.
Auburn didn't even have a TE coach. He worked with WRs coach and OL coach.

Hurst did have better agility drills than Uzomah though.

(06-01-2022, 04:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hurst - 4.67
Uzomah - 4.62

Uzomah was actually the better athlete+measurables overall, he was just very raw coming out of Auburn.
Auburn didn't even have a TE coach. He worked with WRs coach and OL coach.

Hurst did have better agility drills than Uzomah though.

That is really the point. 

Uzo looked slow out on the field at times too, forty times sometimes don't correlate with on the field speed IMO.

(06-01-2022, 04:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hurst - 4.67
Uzomah - 4.62

Uzomah was actually the better athlete+measurables overall, he was just very raw coming out of Auburn.
Auburn didn't even have a TE coach. He worked with WRs coach and OL coach.

Hurst did have better agility drills than Uzomah though.

These guys are not the same athletically.  Hurst is very smooth and is one of those guys that is excellent at every sport. CJ running a straight line in shorts isnt really close to the guy Hurst was, and hopefully can still be.

For some reason people think I am bashing hurst when I say he won't put up big numbers with the Bengals.  What I am actually saying is that no TE (except maybe someone like Kelce or Gronkowski) will put up big numbers with the Bengals as long as Chase, Higgins, Boyd, and Mixon are healthy.  Hurst may have slightly better numbers than CJ just because as a team we thrown for a lot  more yards, but he is not going to bust off a 800+ yard season.  

Honestly I don't want him taking targets away from the other stars.  The 3 WRs are all MUCH better receiving threats than Hayden and Mixon is better with the ball in his hands.

BTW Mixon had 31 receptions over his last 6 games.  That is a pace to catch 88 passes in a 17 game season.  I don't think Joe will get that many but I predict he will play a much bigger role in the passing game this year.  I'd like to see him get 60 receptions.

caesar2727 Wrote:These guys are not the same athletically. Hurst is very smooth and is one of those guys that is excellent at every sport. CJ running a straight line in shorts isnt really close to the guy Hurst was, and hopefully can still be.

Nate Wrote:That is really the point.
Uzo looked slow out on the field at times too, forty times sometimes don't correlate with on the field speed IMO.

Sorry if it's not tagging you guys with the quotes, I am having issues with the reply functionality after upgrading to most recent version of Chrome. So I just manually typed out the code for the quoting.

Uzomah is faster vertically than Hurst.
He's not as agile though.

Uzomah performed better than Hurst in the following drills:
Bench - 19 vs 16
40 (including the 10-yard and 20-yard splits) - 4.62 (20 split - 2.65, 10 split - 1.58) vs 4.67 (20 split - 2.71, 10 split - 1.63)
Combine that with Uzomah being nearly 6'6" and over 10 lbs heavier than Hurst, he scored a better RAS than Hurst.

If you don't believe me - https://ras.football/

As I said, he's not as agile (shuttle - 4.57 vs 4.37, 3cone - 7.22 vs 7.19), which is why Uzomah might look less athletic than Hurst on the field. It isn't often that a receiver is running vertically only. They are cutting in and out a lot. Bigger players also look slower on video than smaller players who run the same speed, as they are covering more ground in their strides.

Thanks for that Ocho, I cannot quote posts either right now so I understand.

Those numbers pretty much back up everything we are saying. We will see how Hayden does as a #1 without a top TE
in front of him for once and with Burrow throwing to him and top WR's taking the attention off of him. I think barring injury
he has his best season like I keep saying and better than any season Uzo has had. He is younger too and goes up for the
ball more naturally.

Well this was interesting: Hurst “ Hayden Hurst makes a point about how “refreshing” it is to deal with an “authentic” coach like Zac Taylor #Bengals
3:03 PM · Mar 18, 2022

(06-02-2022, 01:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sorry if it's not tagging you guys with the quotes, I am having issues with the reply functionality after upgrading to most recent version of Chrome. So I just manually typed out the code for the quoting.

Uzomah is faster vertically than Hurst.
He's not as agile though.

Uzomah performed better than Hurst in the following drills:
Bench - 19 vs 16
40 (including the 10-yard and 20-yard splits) - 4.62 (20 split - 2.65, 10 split - 1.58) vs 4.67 (20 split - 2.71, 10 split - 1.63)
Combine that with Uzomah being nearly 6'6" and over 10 lbs heavier than Hurst, he scored a better RAS than Hurst.

If you don't believe me - https://ras.football/

As I said, he's not as agile (shuttle - 4.57 vs 4.37, 3cone - 7.22 vs 7.19), which is why Uzomah might look less athletic than Hurst on the field. It isn't often that a receiver is running vertically only. They are cutting in and out a lot. Bigger players also look slower on video than smaller players who run the same speed, as they are covering more ground in their strides.

Are those stats from their combines?  If so there has been a lot of time since then.  CJ's times were from 2015 and Hurst's from 2018.  There has been a lot of time since they both did combine drills, plus wear and tear, they are older and some injuries.  So I don't really know how we can compare them this year from their combine times years ago.  I think the only way we could compare them as far as speed and agility these days is to have them both in full pads running timed drills and I don't think that will happen. 

And maybe we should just stop comparing their work out numbers from years ago with the realization that CJ is no longer a Bengal but Hurst is.  

(06-02-2022, 08:39 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Are those stats from their combines?  If so there has been a lot of time since then.  CJ's times were from 2015 and Hurst's from 2018.  There has been a lot of time since they both did combine drills, plus wear and tear, they are older and some injuries.  So I don't really know how we can compare them this year from their combine times years ago.  I think the only way we could compare them as far as speed and agility these days is to have them both in full pads running timed drills and I don't think that will happen. 

And maybe we should just stop comparing their work out numbers from years ago with the realization that CJ is no longer a Bengal but Hurst is.  

That's fine, but I was just replying to someone who said Hurst was some greater athlete compared to CJ.
I was not the one who brought up CJ out of the blue.

I get players aren't the same they were when they first entered the league. But since there aren't any metrics done when they're in the NFL and season-to-season, it's about all we can go off of.

(06-02-2022, 09:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's fine, but I was just replying to someone who said Hurst was some greater athlete compared to CJ.
I was not the one who brought up CJ out of the blue.

I get players aren't the same they were when they first entered the league. But since there aren't any metrics done when they're in the NFL and season-to-season, it's about all we can go off of.

Oh, please don't get me wrong.  I was not trying to call you out. My apologies.   I just felt it is fair to mention that those combine times may not be relevant now or a viable comparison to their current abilities. We will find out this year what Hurst is capable of.

(06-02-2022, 09:49 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Oh, please don't get me wrong.  I was not trying to call you out. My apologies.   I just felt it is fair to mention that those combine times may not be relevant now or a viable comparison to their current abilities.

They’ve got big plans for Hurst vertically. With the safety double teaming Chase often Hurst is going to be a killer down the seam. Hurst is faster today than Uzomah I don’t care what Fred Mertz says.

(06-02-2022, 09:49 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Oh, please don't get me wrong.  I was not trying to call you out.  My apologies.   I just felt it is fair to mention that those combine times may not be relevant now or a viable comparison to their current abilities.   We will find out this year what Hurst is capable of.

Completely agree with both of your posts George. All we can do is look at what Hurst looks like now.

He looks faster than Uzo from what I am seeing in these Camp vids. Faster, crisper route running, is more fluid etc.

We can always remember what Uzo looked like last season in arguably his best one.

(06-02-2022, 09:59 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They’ve got big plans for Hurst vertically. With the safety double teaming Chase often Hurst is going to be a killer down the seam. Hurst is faster today than Uzomah I don’t care what Fred Mertz says.

Feel the same.