FWIW and do I hope so.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-offensive-line-higher-than-expected-in-latest-rankings

Definitely what we are hoping for and has me very excited.

(06-14-2022, 11:25 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Definitely what we are hoping for and has me very excited.

For sure, I get a little more excited everyday to see this team this fall.

(06-14-2022, 11:08 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: FWIW and do I hope so.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-offensive-line-higher-than-expected-in-latest-rankings

Here were last year's PFF rankings of the expected starting OL for the Bengals:
LT - Jonah Williams - 74.5 (32nd rated OT)
LG - Jackson Carman - 54.2 (67th rated OG)
C - Ted Karras - 72.4 (was 16th rated OG, would have been rated 12th highest C)
RG - Alex Cappa - 71.3 (18th rated OG)
RT - La'el Collins - 80.2 (15th rated OT)

I think it was Joe Goodberry who had posted back in the winter that Carman performed far better at LG vs RG, so his RG numbers brought his overall score down. But his LG performance was I believe in the 60s or 70s at 100+ snaps.

So what to potentially take away?
If Williams and Collins play up to their norm, Bengals would have above average starters at both OT positions.
Karras and Cappa should be above average starters as well if they play up to their norm.
Carman is the wildcard of the group. If his performance last year at LG is any indication, he should be at least solid there. However, his snaps at RG last year leave room for concern.

If Carman finds his groove at LG and the other starters play as expected, this could be a Top 10 if not Top 5 OL.

(06-14-2022, 11:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Here were last year's PFF rankings of the expected starting OL for the Bengals:
LT - Jonah Williams - 74.5 (32nd rated OT)
LG - Jackson Carman - 54.2 (67th rated OG)
C - Ted Karras - 72.4 (was 16th rated OG, would have been rated 12th highest C)
RG - Alex Cappa - 71.3 (18th rated OG)
RT - La'el Collins - 80.2 (15th rated OT)

I think it was Joe Goodberry who had posted back in the winter that Carman performed far better at LG vs RG, so his RG numbers brought his overall score down. But his LG performance was I believe in the 60s or 70s at 100+ snaps.

So what to potentially take away?
If Williams and Collins play up to their norm, Bengals would have above average starters at both OT positions.
Karras and Cappa should be above average starters as well if they play up to their norm.
Carman is the wildcard of the group. If his performance last year at LG is any indication, he should be at least solid there. However, his snaps at RG last year leave room for concern.

If Carman finds his groove at LG and the other starters play as expected, this could be a Top 10 if not Top 5 OL.

I'd be elated if they were top 15. I'd be crying for joy if they are top 10. If they're top 5 I'll probably burn one.

(06-14-2022, 12:44 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd be elated if they were top 15. I'd be crying for joy if they are top 10. If they're top 5 I'll probably burn one.

By comparison, here is the projected starting OL of the Browns (ranked 2nd overall) compares from last year:
LT - Jedrick Wills - 66.1 (52nd rated OT)
LG - Joel Bitonio - 93.6 (1st rated OG)
C - Nick Harris - 70.0 but only 68 offensive snaps played. Not enough snaps to qualify for ranking. In 2020, he played 143 snaps and rated 51.3.
RG - Wyatt Teller - 84.9 (5th rated OG)
RT - Jack Conklin - 78.8 (20th rated OT)

So the Browns have a (big) question mark at C. Arguably a bigger worry than Bengals with Carman.
Wills and Conklin same tier, if not slightly worse, than Williams and Collins.
The Browns really just have clear upgrades at IOL compared to the Bengals - Bitonio and Teller are better veterans than Karras and Cappa. But Karraas and Cappa still good.

(06-14-2022, 01:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: By comparison, here is the projected starting OL of the Browns (ranked 2nd overall) compares from last year:
LT - Jedrick Wills - 66.1 (52nd rated OT)
LG - Joel Bitonio - 93.6 (1st rated OG)
C - Nick Harris - 70.0 but only 68 offensive snaps played. Not enough snaps to qualify for ranking. In 2020, he played 143 snaps and rated 51.3.
RG - Wyatt Teller - 84.9 (5th rated OG)
RT - Jack Conklin - 78.8 (20th rated OT)

So the Browns have a (big) question mark at C. Arguably a bigger worry than Bengals with Carman.
Wills and Conklin same tier, if not slightly worse, than Williams and Collins.
The Browns really just have clear upgrades at IOL compared to the Bengals - Bitonio and Teller are better veterans than Karras and Cappa. But Karraas and Cappa still good.

Yes our real only big question mark as you mentioned is LG. I remember reading an article month or two ago and the author said words to the effect of "don't be surprised when D'ante Smith is the starting LG". Not sure where that confidence came from ? But between Carman. Smith, and perhaps even Volson ? We can make something work there ?

I'm just sick and tired of having a shitty Oline.

(06-14-2022, 01:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yes our real only big question mark as you mentioned is LG. I remember reading an article month or two ago and the author said words to the effect of "don't be surprised when D'ante Smith is the starting LG". Not sure where that confidence came from ? But between Carman. Smith, and perhaps even Volson ? We can make something work there ?

I'm just sick and tired of having a shitty Oline.

I personally don't see why anyone other than the coaches would have confidence in Smith or Volson over Carman.


Smith played 50 snaps last regular season and had a 53.0 overall PFF rating. 41.7 pass block. That's lower than Carman (56.3 overall, 53.0 pass block).
Smith did have 12 snaps in the postseason at a 55.9 rating, but only 1 pass block snap.


Smith needs to stay outside and use his extreme length (35.25" arms). He got up to 305 lbs when he performed his offseason workouts in 2021, but he went back down to 294 lbs during the season. He needs to stay bulked up. It's easier to get by with sub-300 size when you're like 6'2" or 6'3", but he's 6'5".

Volson is going to have a learning curve coming from FCS. No way around it. He might end up the best by season's end, but I can't imagine he's in a better spot than Carman yet.

We don't have a single Pro Bowl or top rated O-lineman. Some fans have gotten a little carried away. I doubt we have an "elite" o-line.

But we will be miles ahead of what we had last year. And with the skill players we have this offense should explode if we just have a top 10 o-line. 

 I feel very confident our line will be that good.

(06-14-2022, 11:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Here were last year's PFF rankings of the expected starting OL for the Bengals:
LT - Jonah Williams - 74.5 (32nd rated OT)
LG - Jackson Carman - 54.2 (67th rated OG)
C - Ted Karras - 72.4 (was 16th rated OG, would have been rated 12th highest C)
RG - Alex Cappa - 71.3 (18th rated OG)
RT - La'el Collins - 80.2 (15th rated OT)

I think it was Joe Goodberry who had posted back in the winter that Carman performed far better at LG vs RG, so his RG numbers brought his overall score down. But his LG performance was I believe in the 60s or 70s at 100+ snaps.

So what to potentially take away?
If Williams and Collins play up to their norm, Bengals would have above average starters at both OT positions.
Karras and Cappa should be above average starters as well if they play up to their norm.
Carman is the wildcard of the group. If his performance last year at LG is any indication, he should be at least solid there. However, his snaps at RG last year leave room for concern.

If Carman finds his groove at LG and the other starters play as expected, this could be a Top 10 if not Top 5 OL.

Nice Ocho.

This is what we all are hoping as others said. We will see how well Pollack coaches up the pass blocking which is my only 
concern with him as a OL coach. He is good at coaching up run blocking and we brought in run blocking OL. Carman is also 
a run blocking OL and Jonah isn't a slouch here either. We could be a top 5 run blocking OL and it wouldn't surprise me.

Not quite as good as a pass blocking OL but better than last year, top half of the league anyways which is all Burrow and our
Offense as a whole really need.

Hell yeah!

I was predicting (hoping) for at least an average offensive line and thought we could easily make a run back to the Super Bowl if we could just give Burrow a little time and open some holes for Mixon, so this has me PUMPED and wanting to Über to Indiana to make my bets on us making the Super Bowl, winning the Super Bowl, and Burrow winning MVP!

What a lot of people don't understand about offensive lines is that you don't need Pro Bowl or even top offensive linemen to be an average or good unit, but rather just a group of guys that can all work together to get the job done. The offensive line is the only group in football that's like that because it's the positional group that plays together the most and one or two great linemen is good but doesn't perform better than four or five good or even average lineman.

What makes the above statement even more true is if you have above average, good, or great skill players, which we do, because the defense has to worry about covering them and can't just blitz or run stunts that leave holes open for the back.

(I do realize a lot went right for us to make it to the Super Bowl last season, but A LOT LESS has to go right for us to make it back this year.)

One of the good things about the OL is it’s seasoned. Plenty of experience. I think that’s huge.

(06-14-2022, 03:24 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hell yeah!

I was predicting (hoping) for at least an average offensive line and thought we could easily make a run back to the Super Bowl if we could just give Burrow a little time and open some holes for Mixon, so this has me PUMPED and wanting to Über to Indiana to make my bets on us making the Super Bowl, winning the Super Bowl, and Burrow winning MVP!

What a lot of people don't understand about offensive lines is that you don't need Pro Bowl or even top offensive linemen to be an average or good unit, but rather just a group of guys that can all work together to get the job done. The offensive line is the only group in football that's like that because it's the positional group that plays together the most and one or two great linemen is good but doesn't perform better than four or five good or even average lineman.

What makes the above statement even more true is if you have above average, good, or great skill players, which we do, because the defense has to worry about covering them and can't just blitz or run stunts that leave holes open for the back.

(I do realize a lot went right for us to make it to the Super Bowl last season, but A LOT LESS has to go right for us to make it back this year.)

Sure hoping so.