(06-16-2022, 07:11 PM)J24 Wrote: https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1537462561314066432?t=Qg2SOauV80JJlV3yGZbOuw&s=19

Let's get real here. The Bengals were touting Jessie as the best Safety in Football last Off-season . He came off an all pro season and was rated #1 Safety by PFF . Yet the guy isn't supposed to expect a big time contract? What sense does that make? 

We can certainly afford to sign Bates as well as Burrow and Chase. 

The Rams signed Ramsey, Donald, Stafford, Howard,  Robinson,  and Kupp all to massive deals this  off-season. 

Last Offseason is not this Offseason. His regular season last year wasn't the play of even a top 15 Safety. 

He played great in the Postseason and yeah, this should be acknowledged but the poor play in the regular season should 
be taken into account just the same. If Bates played like a #1 Safety in the regular season? Sure, he should expect a #1 
Safety big time contract. He did not by any means.

You take all of these things into account, not just things you want to hear and don't because you have a bias one way or 
the other. The Rams can do what they want, they won't be back to the big show against us anytime soon unless all those 
guys stay healthy and they coach up everyone else into a better team than last year. 

Our team is clearly better and with our Offseason and Draft we can deal with losing Jessie Bates and I always liked this
player tons and called to draft him before we did in multiple Mock drafts before we drafted him. I have no bias against 
him. You clearly have a bias for him and if you get your way it WOULD hurt the team I guarantee it with his inconsistent
play.

(06-16-2022, 09:13 PM)Stewy Wrote: There is nothing taken out of context.  The bias is yours, not the haters, of which i am not one.  

Personally i saw the quotes.  He said specifically that the contract stuff distracted him, and he was alluding to his play.  I'm not saying he was dogging it on purpose, but IN HIS OWN WORDS it got into his head and affected him.

Sorry but you can't spin it differently.  He said it and it was clear what he was talking about.

Saw the same and see the same still Stewy. Well said.

(06-16-2022, 09:27 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: How would you be if your worth 40 million guaranteed and a freak injury could destroy that. Its easy to blame the athlete we all support the team these players are individuals with families to support.

Bates is an NFL player.  Being an NFL player requires a person to perform under pressure and shut out the outside noise to deal with the task at hand.  There are literally hundreds of players in contract years every season.  Being in the last year of your rookie deal is not an excuse.  There are going to be 3 dozen guys in TC literally fighting for their football lives.  

Bates was offered an extension and security last year.  He chose not to take it and to try to maximize his contract value, as is his right. You can't use pressure as an excuse for not performing when you actively make decisions that put you under more pressure. 

We sign Bates to a 4 year extension now we’re likely going up on Tee, Boyd and 1 more solid player in the 10-13 million dollar range


I think Bates is worth that. We’re not finding another Bates for a long time.


We could honestly find some more good WRs in next years draft

(06-16-2022, 10:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Last Offseason is not this Offseason. His regular season last year wasn't the play of even a top 15 Safety. 

He played great in the Postseason and yeah, this should be acknowledged but the poor play in the regular season should 
be taken into account just the same. If Bates played like a #1 Safety in the regular season? Sure, he should expect a #1 
Safety big time contract. He did not by any means.

You take all of these things into account, not just things you want to hear and don't because you have a bias one way or 
the other. The Rams can do what they want, they won't be back to the big show against us anytime soon unless all those 
guys stay healthy and they coach up everyone else into a better team than last year. 

Our team is clearly better and with our Offseason and Draft we can deal with losing Jessie Bates and I always liked this
player tons and called to draft him before we did in multiple Mock drafts before we drafted him. I have no bias against 
him. You clearly have a bias for him and if you get your way it WOULD hurt the team I guarantee it with his inconsistent
play.


Saw the same and see the same still Stewy. Well said.

The bottom line is when you have a talented roster...you can't keep everyone.

(06-17-2022, 01:55 AM)Housh Wrote: We sign Bates to a 4 year extension now we’re likely going up on Tee, Boyd and 1 more solid player in the 10-13 million dollar range


I think Bates is worth that. We’re not finding another Bates for a long time.


We could honestly find some more good WRs in next years draft

will bates show up for the regular season if we pay him?

(06-17-2022, 08:33 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: will bates show up for the regular season if we pay him?

Bates will play under the tag. Players make a lot of noise about not signing a franchise tag, but they ALL know how that worked out for LeVeon Bell. He's not going to give up that kind of money, because he'll never make back.

(06-17-2022, 09:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Bates will play under the tag. Players make a lot of noise about not signing a franchise tag, but they ALL know how that worked out for LeVeon Bell. He's not going to give up that kind of money, because he'll never make back.

I agree, hard to make up 13 million dollars. At best, he sits out and stays healthy for 4 years, he breaks even.

(06-17-2022, 08:33 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: will bates show up for the regular season if we pay him?

(06-17-2022, 09:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Bates will play under the tag. Players make a lot of noise about not signing a franchise tag, but they ALL know how that worked out for LeVeon Bell. He's not going to give up that kind of money, because he'll never make back.

(06-17-2022, 09:56 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree, hard to make up 13 million dollars. At best, he sits out and stays health for 4 years, he breaks even.

I believe Xeno was questioning his character, not his physical presence.

"Will he show up" meaning, will he perform in the regular season or be distracted by contract issues again like last season.

(06-17-2022, 01:55 AM)Housh Wrote: We sign Bates to a 4 year extension now we’re likely going up on Tee, Boyd and 1 more solid player in the 10-13 million dollar range


I think Bates is worth that. We’re not finding another Bates for a long time.


We could honestly find some more good WRs in next years draft

We may have already found another Bates in Dax Hill.  Only time will tell, but Hill is a very promising replacement if we can not retain Jesse.

(06-16-2022, 09:27 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: How would you be if your worth 40 million guaranteed and a freak injury could destroy that. Its easy to blame the athlete we all support the team these players are individuals with families to support.

The same way hundreds of other NFL players feel when they are still under their rookie contract.

He was offered an extension last year that would have given him security but he turned it down.  I am sure that put pressure but MOST NFL players in that same position play BETTER instead of worse.  We see it all the time.  "Contract year" brings out the best in most players because they know they have to play well to get paid well.

Bates attitude is an anomaly.  He isn't like mist NFL players.  Great player, but I question his head and heart.

(06-17-2022, 10:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bates attitude is an anomaly.  He isn't like mist NFL players.  Great player, but I question his head and heart.

I don’t.

This is just like at my last job where i thought i should’ve been making 30% more than i was. Bates simply knows(or thinks he knows) his worth and is trying to get it. And i do believe Bates will follow what i did and leave and go find someone who values him at his asking price

Imo if players aren’t willing to sit out season games then i don’t understand why they drag these negotiations out.

(06-17-2022, 11:00 AM)Housh Wrote: I don’t.

Then how to explain his poor play last year?

You think he was lying when he said he let the contract issue effect his play?

(06-17-2022, 11:00 AM)Housh Wrote: I don’t.

This is just like at my last job where i thought i should’ve been making 30% more than i was. Bates simply knows(or thinks he knows) his worth and is trying to get it. And i do believe Bates will follow what i did and leave and go find someone who values him at his asking price

Imo if players aren’t willing to sit out season games then i don’t understand why they drag these negotiations out.

Trying to make the other side blink. Sooner or later, first to blink loses. But the game ends when the season begins.

(06-17-2022, 08:09 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The bottom line is when you have a talented roster...you can't keep everyone.

Truth and as Marv would say that is a good thing.

We drafted for this, insurance in case Bates leaves. It isn't like the Whit situation where we had no one to replace him.

We have a couple extremely talented young Safeties who Lou and the secondary coaches can groom into possible star players.

Dax Hill is also very polished for a rookie Safety, much more than Bates coming into the league.

(06-17-2022, 11:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Trying to make the other side blink. Sooner or later, first to blink loses. But the game ends when the season begins.

The next time Mike Brown blinks regarding money will be the first time.

(06-17-2022, 11:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Trying to make the other side blink. Sooner or later, first to blink loses. But the game ends when the season begins.

This.

Negotiations go public and the player thinks he can get the fans on his side.  Usually doesn't work, but we don't really know.  Most players end up playing instead of sitting out, but they might have gotten more by threatening to sit out.  We would never know.

Didn't Rudi Johnson threaten to sit out one time.  Maybe Mike blinked then.

(06-17-2022, 12:08 PM)jason Wrote: The next time Mike Brown blinks regarding money will be the first time.

He did eventually Trade Palmer after taking a very firm stand on it...  turned out well for us too lol

(06-17-2022, 03:57 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: He did eventually Trade Palmer after taking a very firm stand on it...  turned out well for us too lol

Very well, just not quite as good as we hoped. Now is the time for things to turn out much better, SB win better.

(06-17-2022, 11:00 AM)Housh Wrote: I don’t.

This is just like at my last job where i thought i should’ve been making 30% more than i was. Bates simply knows(or thinks he knows) his worth and is trying to get it. And i do believe Bates will follow what i did and leave and go find someone who values him at his asking price

Imo if players aren’t willing to sit out season games then i don’t understand why they drag these negotiations out.

Nobody questions Bates' head or heart for wanting to maximize his next contract or leaving to do so.

People question his head and his heart because he could not deal with the pressure of playing in a contract year.  If you're trying to negotiate a raise from your workplace, going out and doing a crappy job isn't a good way to go about it.  If you want an employer to value you more and pay you more as a result, you have to show just how much more valuable you can be to the company.  That's what most NFL players do in contract years, but not Bates.  From my experience, employees who get mopey and start half assing their work because they feel they are underpaid simply never work out long term.  If you give them a raise, they'll be happy for awhile, then fall back into the same behavior or go somewhere else and repeat the same behavior.  Bates will likely be the same way.  When he gets his big contract, he'll be happy for awhile until other S contracts start topping his.  Then he'll mope and whine about an extension.

IMHO. Bates not being in camp is because he doesn't have to. Bengals have used the franchise 8 times, and signed 1 guy, Rudi, to an extension. That means that the Bengals are not looking to sign him again. So Bates has to decide the best path to getting paid for the rest of his life. Part of that is playing under the tag this year. But he isn't looking to make the Bengals happy. He is going to do what he needs to do to put himself in a place to showcase his skills to other teams with the least risk. That means not playing in camp, minimal preseason snaps, playing at a high level in primetime games, and staying healthy.