(06-20-2022, 01:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah baby.

I know I keep saying this but if these guys stay healthy records could be broken. Amazing we got to the SuperBowl with 
that thing we called an OL last year. I can only imagine what Burrow, Chase, Mixon, Tee, Boyd, Hurst, Evans can do...

I can only imagine.

They imply Kappa is a clear improvement over Spain, but didn’t Spain have the better pff rating ?

(06-20-2022, 01:52 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: They imply Kappa is a clear improvement over Spain, but didn’t Spain have the better pff rating ?

No, he did not.

Cappa - 73.4 overall (69.6 pass block, 71.2 run block)
Spain - 72.3 overall (58.9 pass block, 76.3 run block)

What doesn't make sense to me though is why Spain isn't even lower.
He's over 10 pts lower than Cappa in pass block rating.
Cappa had 792 pass block snaps compared to Spain's 611 pass block snaps.
Both allowed 5 sacks.
Cappa had 386 run block snaps compared to Spain's 384.
Spain had 4 penalties to Cappa's 1.

If you take Cappa's pass block rating multiplied by number of PB snaps added to the run block rating multiplied by the number of RB snaps, and then divide that by the total number of snaps, Cappa's rating would come out to be 70.124.
((69.6x792)+(71.2x386)) / (792+386) = 70.124

If you do the same for Spain, his rating would come out to be 65.615.

I know that the cumulative rating is not calculated like that, but unfortunately I don't know how it is exactly calculated.
I don't believe I've ever seen an official formula.

(06-20-2022, 12:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We don't have a single Pro Bowl or All Pro players on our O-line.  I don't expect them to be considered among the "elite" in the league.  But with the skill position players we have a #8 rated O-line is plenty good enough for this offense to put up HUGE numbers.

We also need to sign someone for depth.  Over the years I have made thousands of post about free agents that contained language some thing like "you don't make a move like that unless you have a roster that is just one or two players away from winning a championship".  well, this is that year.  We need to make that extra move or two this year because there is no guarantee that we will have a roster this close again.  All sorts of stuff could happen with free agency and injuries.  I am not saying we need to go out and blow $10 million on another starter, but we could really use some depth for the o-line.

Hey Fred and I agree on something.

(06-20-2022, 12:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Maybe the Bengals want to save that money for midseason veterans based on who is injured and how well the team is doing.


Personally, I want to see a vet OL and WR added, at least. I'm super nervous about the WR and OL depth in case any starter goes down.
I'd also be ok with adding Ogunjobi midseason, but I want to see how Carter and Hill fare first.
I wouldn't have selected Carter over Perrion Winfrey, but I do think he can become a good IDL.
And I really like Hill. I wanted Hill kept over Ogunjobi even if the injury didn't happen.

Me too, I'd feel much better.

(06-20-2022, 01:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: No, he did not.

Cappa - 73.4 overall (69.6 pass block, 71.2 run block)
Spain - 72.3 overall (58.9 pass block, 76.3 run block)

Not a clear cut upgrade. A very slight upgrade

And I was wrong anyways because Carman and Volson are replacing Spain. Which seems like a clear downgrade for now

(06-20-2022, 02:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Not a clear cut upgrade. A very slight upgrade

And I was wrong anyways because Carman and Volson are replacing Spain. Which seems like a clear downgrade for now

Agreed when comparing Cappa to Spain, although a 10-point difference in pass blocking is a clear cut difference.

As it currently stands until we can see Carman and Volson, that seems like a downgrade from Spain.

However, Cappa is replacing Adeniji/Carman at RG, and so he is a huge upgrade for RG.

(06-20-2022, 02:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Not a clear cut upgrade. A very slight upgrade

And I was wrong anyways because Carman and Volson are replacing Spain. Which seems like a clear downgrade for now

But that makes Cappa an ever bigger upgrade over Carman.

We have Jonah, Carman, and three upgrades.  Moving them around doesn't change anything.  It is a zero net sum gain.

(06-20-2022, 01:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: No, he did not.

Cappa - 73.4 overall (69.6 pass block, 71.2 run block)
Spain - 72.3 overall (58.9 pass block, 76.3 run block)

What doesn't make sense to me though is why Spain isn't even lower.
He's over 10 pts lower than Cappa in pass block rating.
Cappa had 792 pass block snaps compared to Spain's 611 pass block snaps.
Both allowed 5 sacks.
Cappa had 386 run block snaps compared to Spain's 384.
Spain had 4 penalties to Cappa's 1.

If you take Cappa's pass block rating multiplied by number of PB snaps added to the run block rating multiplied by the number of RB snaps, and then divide that by the total number of snaps, Cappa's rating would come out to be 70.124.
((69.6x792)+(71.2x386)) / (792+386) = 70.124

If you do the same for Spain, his rating would come out to be 65.615.

I know that the cumulative rating is not calculated like that, but unfortunately I don't know it is exactly calculated.
I don't believe I've ever seen an official formula.

Well done Ocho. I think your formula makes more sense too and is more accurate just from watching the two play.

(06-20-2022, 02:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Not a clear cut upgrade. A very slight upgrade

And I was wrong anyways because Carman and Volson are replacing Spain. Which seems like a clear downgrade for now

Yeah, Cappa plays RG so he is a monster upgrade over Adeniji and Carman who was clearly uncomfortable on the right side.

Adeniji is an OT and shouldn't even be in the NFL unless he has some concrete in his shoes.

(06-20-2022, 02:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Agreed when comparing Cappa to Spain, although a 10-point difference in pass blocking is a clear cut difference.

As it currently stands until we can see Carman and Volson, that seems like a downgrade from Spain.

However, Cappa is replacing Adeniji/Carman at RG, and so he is a huge upgrade for RG.

Seems like a downgrade at LG, the only real question on the team besides depth on the OL and WR honestly.

Not terrible, but yeah Cappa is a huge upgrade at RG no question.

As stated upthread, the correct comparison is Cappa to Adeniji and with the Reiff injury La'el Collins to Prince and Kappa to Hopkins - and those are pretty significant upgrades. I do expect some more adds of veteran OL to fortify the bench and make it so we are not relying so heavily on Carman panning out at LG.

(06-19-2022, 10:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: LG is quite the quandary. On one hand I wand the early 2nd round pick to play and flourish; on the other I want us to bring in a vet such as Tretter, Flowers, or Spain and know we have decent; at minimum.

Bring in Tretter, kick Karras to LG where he grades better, and this line is a Top 6-8 unit. Let Carman/Smith/Volson serve as the backups. Of course, that all hinges on if Tretter is healthy. It’s odd that no one has signed him yet.

(06-20-2022, 10:16 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Bring in Tretter, kick Karras to LG where he grades better, and this line is a Top 6-8 unit. Let Carman/Smith/Volson serve as the backups. Of course, that all hinges on if Tretter is healthy. It’s odd that no one has signed him yet.

It’s already 8 by PFF. Tretter’s not worth 8 million

(06-20-2022, 10:16 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Bring in Tretter, kick Karras to LG where he grades better, and this line is a Top 6-8 unit.  Let Carman/Smith/Volson serve as the backups.  Of course, that all hinges on if Tretter is healthy.  It’s odd that no one has signed him yet.

From everything I have heard Tretter's knee's are shot. Would be a useless pickup if this is the case and cannot even practice.

Big no to JC Tretter if this is true.