(06-20-2022, 04:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You obviously did not understand the question.

Why are innocent children (as well as everyone else who has lived over the past few thousand years) being punished for something they did not do?

Isn't the entire theory of "punishment" meant to be doing something bad to someone who did something bad?  Can you even define it as "punishment" when it is enforced on people who did nothing wrong?  Seems to me "cruelty" is a better term in this case.

if you want to put the question in the religion section i'll be glad to explain it to you. we should probably stop doing it in this guys thread. 

(06-20-2022, 04:50 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: if you want to put the question in the religion section i'll be glad to explain it to you. we should probably stop doing it in this guys thread. 

Well don't come to these type of threads and start this crap if you are just going to run away and hide.

This is what started it all.

(06-17-2022, 08:05 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: science and medicine and such is fine but has it's limits. for anyone suffering from cancer, humbling yourself to the savior and asking for his help goes much farther. i'm all for research and whatnot but don't forget the biggest cure of all!

hopefully don't get cancelled of the board for giving an alternative to go along with science and research. just wanted to remind people that it's a very real and powerful option too.

(06-20-2022, 05:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well don't come to these type of threads and start this crap if you are just going to run away and hide.

This is what started it all.

notice that talked about medicine and science and gave other suggestions that could be helpful with those things. nice try though.

(06-20-2022, 02:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: A patent for cancer would be completely different than the patent you mentioned.

I don’t understand why it would be different.

(06-20-2022, 02:28 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: we were given rules. we broke those rules. there were consequences given. there were also solutions given.

not much more complicated than that buddy. up to you if you want to seek the solutions.

Consequences like cancer. Cancer didn’t create itself ex nihilo.

If I place a cookie in front of a one year old baby and tell the baby not to eat the cookie fully 100% knowing that baby is definitely going to eat that cookie, whose fault is it the baby ate the cookie? The baby? Or me? And why would I throw a temper tantrum when the baby did exactly what I knew the baby would do? And if I kicked the baby out of the house for disobeying me after setting the baby up for failure, that would reflect poorly on me and my choices. Not the baby. I don’t think that explanation would fly with child protective services when they show up on my doorstep.

(06-17-2022, 08:22 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The biggest cure of all would be medicine, but I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this. The amount of people who pray for their life and still end up dying is likely overwhelming in comparison to those who live. I actually have a short, anecdotal story on this.

I know a couple who are very religious. They are middle aged, late 50's/early 60's. The wife was playing with the dog, slipped on a tennis ball and fell. It broke her hip. Their approach was to forego surgery because "God will provide, God will heal." Two and a half years later, they had to perform surgery in order to fix her but it was significantly worse. She had basically lost her ability to walk. They prayed every night, did their Bible studies and followed their beliefs. Unsurprisingly, it failed, and she has permanent loss of mobility now, though she can walk after the surgery.

I will never disparage an individual for their beliefs. None of us have the answers to many of life's questions, but anyone who chooses faith over modern medicine is playing a game that they are likely to lose. My uncle was a religious man, and he had cancer. He prayed to his Father and savior, asking for help. He's been dead for nearly 20 years now. 

A lot of people believe science and religion are mutually exclusive. This is a pretty ignorant way of thinking IMO. 

I am Christian but also believe heavily in science.

(06-22-2022, 10:04 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: A lot of people believe science and religion are mutually exclusive. This is a pretty ignorant way of thinking IMO. 

I am Christian but also believe heavily in science. Who's to say God hasn't guided or given us new ways to heal ourselves through medicine? I don't get why religious people or Christians would ever just totally rule science or medicine out in the name of God lol. 

Absolutely. I am not a religious man, but if God, or any other higher being created the universe and everything in it, then they also created the scientific laws. My reasoning would be that they are tools provided to us, to learn, to explore and to grow. Utilize them. If you pray and receive an answer, the answer may very well "GO GET SURGERY". Lol.

I also think it is fair to point out that I do NOT know many people like the couple I described. There is only one other couple that is mildly like that whom I personally know. Living in Oklahoma, I am in a very religious area so in my experience people like this are few and far between. 

(06-20-2022, 04:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You obviously did not understand the question.

Why are innocent children (as well as everyone else who has lived over the past few thousand years) being punished for something they did not do?

Isn't the entire theory of "punishment" meant to be doing something bad to someone who did something bad?  Can you even define it as "punishment" when it is enforced on people who did nothing wrong?  Seems to me "cruelty" is a better term in this case.

I think the Adam and Eve story opened up the door for free will. It wasn't really punishment by God, but free will that was exposed. God didn't want to take away that free will so he gave humans the opportunity to explore it - which lead to sin, suffering, etc. 

I don't really take the Old Testament literally, but this is what I gather from it none the less. 

(06-22-2022, 10:12 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Absolutely. I am not a religious man, but if God, or any other higher being created the universe and everything in it, then they also created the scientific laws. My reasoning would be that they are tools provided to us, to learn, to explore and to grow. Utilize them. If you pray and receive an answer, the answer may very well "GO GET SURGERY". Lol.

I also think it is fair to point out that I do NOT know many people like the couple I described. There is only one other couple that is mildly like that whom I personally know. Living in Oklahoma, I am in a very religious area so in my experience people like this are few and far between. 

You see a lot of this with the vaccine. People politicize it and make it a religious thing. It's baffling to me. We've had vaccines for hundreds of years and they've helped a lot of people. Sometimes I hate living in the 2020s lol. 

(06-20-2022, 02:28 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: we were given rules. we broke those rules. there were consequences given. there were also solutions given.

not much more complicated than that buddy. up to you if you want to seek the solutions.

My mother died from brain cancer. She broke no rules.. your views are your views only with absolutely zero basis in fact. Next thing you'll tell me my mother is in hell now because she knew your claim is nonsense.. SMITE ME OH MIGHTY BULLY and MASS MURDERER! See? I'm still kicking and quite alive. 
You're better off fearing the wrath of the Tooth Fairy and tooth aches.. In fact you probably received cold hard cash from the Tooth Fairy as a kid.. How much cold hard cash have you received from your god?