(06-21-2022, 09:16 AM)HarleyDog Wrote:  You can't be a hardcore fan and accept mediocrity and enjoy having players around that suck. 

Fans have to realize that "injured" is not the same as "suck".  Lots of big name players have missed lots of time or even been forced to retire because of injuries.  That does not mean they all "suck".

Some fans here just think everything is personal.  If a coach does not win it is not because he is not a good coach.  Instead it is because he does not care about the fans or does not even try.  If a player fails it is not because he was not a good player, but instead he has to be made into a bad person.

There are lots of players and coaches who try very hard and work very hard and fail just because they are not good players or coaches.  It is silly to argue that they are all bad people.

(06-21-2022, 09:33 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Can you prove they do?

No I can't. 

(06-21-2022, 09:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You are just making this up in your head.  They said the same thing about Waynes as they say about pretty much every injured Bengal

Bengals cornerback Trae Waynes is 100 percent and ready for the 2021 season

Bengals rehab director and Indiana native Nick Cosgray is a fan: "Trae's great to work with in there. Very business-like."


"He's a professional in every sense of the word," Bengals cornerback coach Steven Jackson says.

Wait wait wait...... YOU know as well as anyone that they're just saying that stuff because they are employed by the team and they have to.

(06-21-2022, 11:25 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Wait wait wait...... YOU know as well as anyone that they're just saying that stuff because they are employed by the team and they have to.

You don't get it.

I don't have to prove their veracity to make my point. I just have to show that the claim of "silence" was BS.

Does the Trae Waynes contract, given the amount and years, go down as the worst Bengals FA contract of all time?
He earned $30.8 mill in two seasons, playing 5 regular season games in that span before being released this offseason.
He still gets $5 mill this year after being cut.

(06-21-2022, 12:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: No you don't

I actually do, but hey it's the internet so I never expect anyone to believe me on these things haha.

(06-21-2022, 11:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Does the Trae Waynes contract, given the amount and years, go down as the worst Bengals FA contract of all time?
He earned $30.8 mill in two seasons, playing 5 regular season games in that span before being released this offseason.
He still gets $5 mill this year after being cut.

It's probably is but Bryant's is still awful.

Antonio Bryant got $13.6 Million and played 0 games. 

Note, Waynes isn't getting $5 million this year it just is an accounting point of the cap not actual cash to him.

(06-21-2022, 11:57 AM)Au165 Wrote: It's probably is but Bryant's is still awful.

Antonio Bryant got $13.6 Million and played 0 games. 

Note, Waynes isn't getting $5 million this year it just is an accounting point of the cap not actual cash to him.

Yes, right. He got all his cash up front but the cap hit was spread across the whole contract.
However, when I look at Spotrac, I don't know if that $20 mill in Year 1 was actually the full amount or not.
So it may be just $30.8 total instead of $35.8 mill.

(06-21-2022, 11:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Does the Trae Waynes contract, given the amount and years, go down as the worst Bengals FA contract of all time?
He earned $30.8 mill in two seasons, playing 5 regular season games in that span before being released this offseason.
He still gets $5 mill this year after being cut.

To me yes. Your only other option is who Antonio Bryant?

Bryant never played a snap in stripes which in my weird ass opinion means we never got to see it he was good or bad which helps him.


Wayans gave us a few snaps and was WORTHLESS when he played. Ppl don’t eBen remember he was healthy to end the season. He was just too bad at football to play

(06-21-2022, 12:50 PM)Housh Wrote: To me yes. Your only other option is who Antonio Bryant?

Bryant never played a snap in stripes which in my weird ass opinion means we never got to see it he was good or bad which helps him.


Wayans gave us a few snaps and was WORTHLESS when he played. Ppl don’t eBen remember he was healthy to end the season. He was just too bad at football to play

Antonio Bryant would be the only one close, IMO.
$13.65 mill for 0 games compared to Waynes $30.8 mill for 5 games.

I feel like I have to lean Waynes since it's more than double what Bryant got (although I know salaries have ballooned a lot since Bryant signed his contract back in 2010).

One key difference though is 2010 there was no salary cap, but the cap was ~$120-125 mill the surrounding years.
The starting salary cap in 2020 when Waynes signed his deal was $198 mill (before rollover).
Since Waynes got basically double Bryant but the cap hasn't doubled from 2010, I have to lean Waynes.

(06-21-2022, 11:44 AM)Au165 Wrote: I actually do, but hey it's the internet so I never expect anyone to believe me on these things haha.

The players in your Fantasy Football league don't really qualify as NFL personnel people.....

(06-21-2022, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't get it.

I don't have to prove their veracity to make my point. I just have to show that the claim of "silence" was BS.

Wait, why does that work for you in this case.... but you refuse to accept the same from others on other subjects?

And 1 hype up 2021 preseason article before he got hurt again and sat around doesn't out weigh the silence the rest of the year and from the rest of the team when coupled with the Bengals cutting him virtually as soon as they could the next offseason.

(06-21-2022, 11:44 AM)Au165 Wrote: I actually do, but hey it's the internet so I never expect anyone to believe me on these things haha.

I treat claims of "inside information" like conspiracy theories.  Some of them might be true, but I need to look at other evidence to decide which ones.

In this case you claimed to have this information when Waynes signed yet you never made any mention of it.  Now, armed with the same 20/20 hindsight that everyone else here has you suddenly, two years later, claim to have this inside information.

I don't automatically call everyone a fraud who claims to have inside information, but in this situation you can't really complain about anyone not believing you.  "Inside information" is pretty useless if you don't even share it until AFTER it has been 100% confirmed.

(06-22-2022, 08:16 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Wait, why does that work for you in this case.... but you refuse to accept the same from others on other subjects?

I don't know what you mean.  I treat them all exactly the same.

You claimed there was "silence".  I proved that you were 100% wrong.  What am I missing here?

(06-22-2022, 08:16 AM)PDub80 Wrote: And 1 hype up 2021 preseason article before he got hurt again and sat around doesn't out weigh the silence the rest of the year 

Yes it does.  The Bengals said the same things about Waynes as they do all other injured players.  There is not one shred of evidence that Waynes was not giving 100% in rehab.  You just made that up in your head.  

You might as well claim that Waynes is a pedophile because no one on the Bengals ever said he wasn't.  That is how ridiculous your argument sounds.

(06-22-2022, 08:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I treat claims of "inside information" like conspiracy theories.  Some of them might be true, but I need to look at other evidence to decide which ones.

In this case you claimed to have this information when Waynes signed yet you never made any mention of it.  Now, armed with the same 20/20 hindsight that everyone else here has you suddenly, two years later, claim to have this inside information.

I don't automatically call everyone a fraud who claims to have inside information, but in this situation you can't really complain about anyone not believing you.  "Inside information" is pretty useless if you don't even share it until AFTER it has been 100% confirmed.

That's fine. I've posted screenshots of convos on the board of discussions with NFL writers and players before. When it comes the team personnel I don't throw the info out in screenshots because of their jobs more so but heading into the drafts I usually post what I am "hearing" for what it's worth before it happens and attribute it to those people. You weren't in the discord but I mentioned Cappa that morning he signed before anyone ever knew the name, that came from the personnel department guy.

At the end of the day though you are right, it's the internet so you really shouldn't believe anyone. No offense taken here on my end.

(06-22-2022, 09:16 AM)Au165 Wrote: That's fine. I've posted screenshots of convos on the board of discussions with NFL writers and players before.

Seriously?  Videos or just something you wrote yourself?

I am sorry to seem surprised but I have never seen anything like this from you.

(06-22-2022, 09:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Seriously?  Videos or just something you wrote yourself?

I am sorry to seem surprised but I have never seen anything like this from you.

I think it was in a thread where there was an argument with the guy who was arguing about just chucking a ball up rather than taking a sack was a taught process to NFL QB's (It isn't). I posted conversations with an NFL WR about that idea.  I've also posted a screenshot here with Doug Farrar discussing a blocking scheme once, maybe a conversation about Zach not being a lame duck coach going into last year (Can't remember on this one).

I don't run around doing it often, but occasionally. Again, it doesn't really matter I just try to add perspective and it's up to people if they want to believe it. I 100% was the first person to call Cappa though..

(06-21-2022, 12:03 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, I understand this too then. Our Montana Bengal fan has land right next to Waynes so it would make sense Trae is into 
hunting. You see this on youtube or something Bengaloo?


Yeah.


He was a decent tackler with the Vikes. That was why we paid him I guess...

Most all of us really liked Mackenzie Alexander until we got Mike Hilton...

Trae's out here now. He's enrolled his kids in the same school our kid went to, about 70 students in a K-8 public school. He also has 81 adult elk on his property right now, so maybe he's never shot one and that played into his decision. I've seen plenty of people lose their minds when it comes to hunting elk.

I'm as frustrated as others he didn't do more to help the Bengals. He is a super-nice dude, and I'm happy to have him as a neighbor.

(06-22-2022, 10:13 AM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: Trae's out here now. He's enrolled his kids in the same school our kid went to, about 70 students in a K-8 public school. He also has 81 adult elk on his property right now, so maybe he's never shot one and that played into his decision. I've seen plenty of people lose their minds when it comes to hunting elk.

I'm as frustrated as others he didn't do more to help the Bengals. He is a super-nice dude, and I'm happy to have him as a neighbor.

Fans are going to be frustrated with any player missing 10+ games for multiple seasons.
Especially if they sign a big contract and take up a good chunk of cap that could have gone to other player(s).