(06-28-2022, 11:16 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Brady is a volume dealer lately. He's still top 10 but he's not top 5 anymore. 

If you adjust his attempts last year to a more reasonable number (other top 3 guys, averaged--658 att) his numbers look something like this.

Comp   Att   Comp%  Yards   YPA   TD   INT   Rating
 422    632    66.7      4580    7.2    37    11     100.2
These are his actual stats up to 632 attempts. 


Which would land him...

Comp- 5th
Att- 5th
Comp%- 16th
Yds- 7th
YPA- 16th
TD- 4th
INT- 17th (worst)
Rating- 9th

The issue is that the Bucs had the 2nd fewest rushing attempts in the league.  It's not really fair to dismiss Brady's volume stats and focus on his averages when he's stuck in a one dimensional offense that's going to drop his efficiency numbers.

(06-28-2022, 11:16 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Brady is a volume dealer lately. He's still top 10 but he's not top 5 anymore. 

If you adjust his attempts last year to a more reasonable number (other top 3 guys, averaged--658 att) his numbers look something like this.

Comp   Att   Comp%  Yards   YPA   TD   INT   Rating
 422    632    66.7      4580    7.2    37    11     100.2
These are his actual stats up to 632 attempts. 


Which would land him...

Comp- 5th
Att- 5th
Comp%- 16th
Yds- 7th
YPA- 16th
TD- 4th
INT- 17th (worst)
Rating- 9th

That’s like saying the guy who leads the league in RBI in baseball should be Penalized for having runners on base infront of him.

If Brady was getting worse. As you claim, they wouldn’t increase his throws.

They did so cause they were better when he threw. And their coach won a Super Bowl. Unless you think he was feeding Brady volume cause he’s incompetent

(06-28-2022, 11:16 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Brady is a volume dealer lately. He's still top 10 but he's not top 5 anymore. 

If you adjust his attempts last year to a more reasonable number (other top 3 guys, averaged--658 att) his numbers look something like this.

Comp   Att   Comp%  Yards   YPA   TD   INT   Rating
 422    632    66.7      4580    7.2    37    11     100.2
These are his actual stats up to 632 attempts. 


Which would land him...

Comp- 5th
Att- 5th
Comp%- 16th
Yds- 7th
YPA- 16th
TD- 4th
INT- 17th (worst)
Rating- 9th

Well done Rfaulk. That is some good research on Brady.

(06-28-2022, 11:19 AM)pally Wrote: Bold prediction. Burrow, Allen, and Herbert (in some order) will move into the 1-3 positions by the end of the season

I like that prediction Pally.

(06-28-2022, 12:51 PM)Whatever Wrote: The issue is that the Bucs had the 2nd fewest rushing attempts in the league.  It's not really fair to dismiss Brady's volume stats and focus on his averages when he's stuck in a one dimensional offense that's going to drop his efficiency numbers.

(06-28-2022, 12:55 PM)ATOTR Wrote: That’s like saying the guy who leads the league in RBI in baseball should be Penalized for having runners on base infront of him.

If Brady was getting worse. As you claim, they wouldn’t increase his throws.

They did so cause they were better when he threw.  And their coach won a Super Bowl.   Unless you think he was feeding Brady volume cause he’s incompetent

True, true.

Burrow's #1 and it's not even close.

What other QB last year, behind THAT Bengals line takes them to the Superbowl? ANSWER: None of them.

Then put Burrow's stats in there and, when adjusted for dog shit line play, he is clearly #1 and the MVP.

(06-28-2022, 12:51 PM)Whatever Wrote: The issue is that the Bucs had the 2nd fewest rushing attempts in the league.  It's not really fair to dismiss Brady's volume stats and focus on his averages when he's stuck in a one dimensional offense that's going to drop his efficiency numbers.

Whose fault is that? Fournette averaged 4.5 per and Jones averaged 4.2

Also, increased numbers don't necessarily cause your efficiency numbers to drop. 

(06-28-2022, 12:55 PM)ATOTR Wrote: That’s like saying the guy who leads the league in RBI in baseball should be Penalized for having runners on base infront of him.

If Brady was getting worse. As you claim, they wouldn’t increase his throws.

They did so cause they were better when he threw.  And their coach won a Super Bowl.   Unless you think he was feeding Brady volume cause he’s incompetent

Brady's brain makes up for any physical shortcomings that he's developed. What i was replying to is that you noted that he led the league in yards and TDs last year. That's not so hard to do for a good QB when his attempts skyrocket. 

(06-28-2022, 02:46 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Burrow's #1 and it's not even close.

Statements like this are typically just way over the top. I think this is a silly take. You can say that you think he is #1, but to act like he is far and away the best QB in the league is hyperbole IMO. In a best scenario, he is #2. He simply isn't better than Rodgers yet, and that is absolute best case in my mind. 

(06-28-2022, 02:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Whose fault is that? Fournette averaged 4.5 per and Jones averaged 4.2

Also, increased numbers don't necessarily cause your efficiency numbers to drop. 

Yeah, Tampa just threw the ball for an absurd amount. Whether that is what Brady wanted or the OC I don't know.

I just love getting Cappa from them who is a great run blocker. Tampa losing Cappa to us could be bigger than anyone knows.

Brady could finally fall off that cliff with age and worse OL play in front of him.

(06-28-2022, 03:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Brady's brain makes up for any physical shortcomings that he's developed. What i was replying to is that you noted that he led the league in yards and TDs last year. That's not so hard to do for a good QB when his attempts skyrocket. 

More truth. Brady is the greatest ever for a reason. He will put up astonishing numbers with tons of attempts, good OL play
and great weapons. It is just going to happen with the guy, we will see how he does this year where everything around him 
should be worse.

(06-28-2022, 03:08 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Statements like this are typically just way over the top. I think this is a silly take. You can say that you think he is #1, but to act like he is far and away the best QB in the league is hyperbole IMO. In a best scenario, he is #2. He simply isn't better than Rodgers yet, and that is absolute best case in my mind. 

That's why I prefer "tiers" to "rankings" it makes alot more sense to put players into tiers especially when you have the larger position groups like Corners. 

(06-28-2022, 03:08 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Statements like this are typically just way over the top. I think this is a silly take. You can say that you think he is #1, but to act like he is far and away the best QB in the league is hyperbole IMO. In a best scenario, he is #2. He simply isn't better than Rodgers yet, and that is absolute best case in my mind. 

Rodgers is great but he still has a problem with winning the big games. I think Burrow can be better cause he seems to play his 
best in the biggest games when it really matters. Rodgers sure didn't play his best against the 49ers in the Playoffs. Joe played
great against the 49ers in the second half when we played them and Joe had a dislocated finger all throughout the Playoffs and 
took us to the SuperBowl and he did it with a much worse OL than Aaron Rodgers had.

(06-28-2022, 03:08 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Statements like this are typically just way over the top. I think this is a silly take. You can say that you think he is #1, but to act like he is far and away the best QB in the league is hyperbole IMO. In a best scenario, he is #2. He simply isn't better than Rodgers yet, and that is absolute best case in my mind. 

Did you read the reasoning in my post? Feel free to debate my reasoning beyond saying it's silly. Why was my reasoning silly?

Is Aaron Rodgers taking the Bengals to the Superbowl behind that Bengals O Line last season? NO... No, he's not. He's not beating the Titans being sacked 9 times. Not happening. Rodgers choked in his playoff game... Burrow kept his nerve and won in MUCH tougher environments with MUCH bigger stakes and MUCH better opponents to do what he did.

If Joe Burrow were on the Packers last season, are the Packers worse? I don't think so. Not at all. I actually think they are better for it. Same with the Chiefs. If Burrow is on the Buccs... are they worse off? NO. Are the Bengals going to the Superbowl with last year's Tom Brady at QB all season? Hell no. He would be broken in half before season's end behind that line.

Also, Burrow was statistically equal at worse when you factor everything in... Winning a much harder division than Rodgers or Brady faced.

I voted 4-6.
He's right up there with Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Josh Allen.
I think just given the more overall sustained success of the first three, I chose 4-6 instead of 1-3, but I think Burrow will get into the 1-3 once Rodgers and Brady retire.

(06-28-2022, 04:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I voted 4-6.
He's right up there with Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Josh Allen.
I think just given the more overall sustained success of the first three, I chose 4-6 instead of 1-3, but I think Burrow will get into the 1-3 once Rodgers and Brady retire.

Agreed.   I have burrow at 6.

5th once Watson gets shellacked indefinitely 

(06-26-2022, 07:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Each year around this time I do a series of threads where we rank our players against the rest of the league. This year we'll kick it off with QB. So where you rank our boy Joe Burr.. As always, here's the competition:

ARZ: Kyler Murray
ATL: Marcus Mariota
BAL: Lamar Jackson
BUF: Josh Allen
CAR: Sam Darnold
CHI: Justin Fields
CLV: Deshaun Watson
DAL: Dak Prescott
DEN: Russell Wilson
DET: Jared Goff
GBP: Aaron Rogers
IND: Matt Ryan
HOU: Davis Mills
JAX: Trevor Lawrence
KCC: Patrick Mahomes
LVR: Derek Carr
LAC: Justin Herbert
LAR: Matt Stafford
MIA: Tu'a Tag
MIN: Kirk Cousins
NEP: Mac Jones
NOS: Jameis Winston
NYG: Dan Jones
NYJ: Zac Wilson
PHI: Jalen Hurts
PIT: Mitch Tribisky
SEA: Drew Lock
SFF: Trey Lance
TBB: Tom Brady
TEN: Ryan Tannehill
WAS: Carson Wentz

I said top 3.  Right now, the only guys I feel that are in his league intellectually and could have done what he did last year with that line is maybe Rogers and Allen.  

Sticking with my top 3 ranking despite many disagreeing, and Joe being better than Mahomes as well.

Plus way cooler.

Rodgers, Brady, and Mahomes are all great but believe two are declining quickly.

Mahomes has benefitted from great teams despite being a great talent himself. We shall see how he does from this point forward when his teams are not quite as stacked. But I watched Burrow beat him twice while getting pummeled and Mahomes uni never even got dirty, yet Joe won both games and both were BIG games that were not overlooked by KC.

That's alright, many of the same people were arguing against me that Zac sucked last year too.

Beating their chest while pointing to records and such.

I'm going full blown blind homer.. 
1. JoeyB
2. JoeyB
3. JoeyB
4. JoeyB
5. JoeyB

The rest are wannaB's

Top 5

Dare I say, the best QB in football

(06-28-2022, 04:53 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Is Aaron Rodgers taking the Bengals to the Superbowl behind that Bengals O Line last season? 

Yes, it's a real possibility. Rodgers has had two seasons in his career where his offensive lines were nearly as bad as Cincinnati's and he led the Packers to the playoffs, posting better numbers in his playoff games. His defenses failed him in those two runs, averaging allowing 35 points per game. Rodgers posted an average 105 QB rating in these two playoffs. It's important to note that the Bengals defense was elite at generating turnovers in the playoffs, which was huge. Burrow played well, but the defense played fantastic as well. Of course, it isn't all QB driven so it is important to look at these factors. You also have Russell Wilson, who led his team to the Super Bowl with a line nearly as bad as Cincinnati's and he has made a career of playing well with poor lines. 

So, yeah, it is completely possible that Rodgers or even Wilson could have led the Bengals to the Super Bowl last year. They both have a history of playing elite level ball behind terrible lines. Given this history, to act like no one else could possibly do it simply isn't based in reality. You may not accept this reasoning, and that's fine, we'll just disagree. I've been maintaining that I think Burrow will have a claim to #1 after this season. Arguably the best skills position in the league with a potential top flight offensive line, but he isn't there yet. Not in my mind. We need more than one full season of data from him, at minimum. 

(06-28-2022, 06:28 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yes, it's a real possibility. Rodgers has had two seasons in his career where his offensive lines were nearly as bad as Cincinnati's and he led the Packers to the playoffs, posting better numbers in his playoff games. His defenses failed him in those two runs, averaging allowing 35 points per game. Rodgers posted an average 105 QB rating in these two playoffs. It's important to note that the Bengals defense was elite at generating turnovers in the playoffs, which was huge. Burrow played well, but the defense played fantastic as well. Of course, it isn't all QB driven so it is important to look at these factors. You also have Russell Wilson, who led his team to the Super Bowl with a line nearly as bad as Cincinnati's and he has made a career of playing well with poor lines. 

So, yeah, it is completely possible that Rodgers or even Wilson could have led the Bengals to the Super Bowl last year. They both have a history of playing elite level ball behind terrible lines. Given this history, to act like no one else could possibly do it simply isn't based in reality. You may not accept this reasoning, and that's fine, we'll just disagree. I've been maintaining that I think Burrow will have a claim to #1 after this season. Arguably the best skills position in the league with a potential top flight offensive line, but he isn't there yet. Not in my mind. We need more than one full season of data from him, at minimum. 

The question isn't Who is the best QB in 2012... It's 2022. Wilson and Rodgers would have struggled mightily in Cincinnati last year behind that O line. 

But, yes, we can agree that it is A ok to have different opinions, takes, and things we value or how we want to weight or view certain aspects of quarterbacking. I was basing my answer on last year - all things considered. In a vacuum or time machine and cherry picking years and best seasons... Of course, Joey B isn't going to beat out Brady, Rodgers, etc. when we look at body of work/career. In time, I agree. Maybe!