(07-06-2022, 04:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd personally bump Wilson down below the young guns Burrow, Herbert and even Allen. Other than that, I think it's pretty spot on. I wouldn’t trade Burrow for Wilson, even for just this year.

Burrow needs to show it again.
Herbert has been very very good both years but not really been elite yet.
Allen I listed all his problems earlier. He's had one great year, one mediocre year, and two bad years. Who is he? I was willing to buy in before 2022 when he regressed.

Wilson is very underrated and underrespected. 10 years in the NFL and only 1 losing season and only 3 missed games, both coming last year. He's won a Super Bowl, should have won a second SB if his HC just decided to not be a dumbass and just hand Marshawn Lynch the ball. 7 of his 10 years had a QB Rating of over 100.0, with a career low of 92.6.

104-53-1 record as a starter, been to the playoffs 8/10 years, won a playoff game in 6/10 years.

That's just consistent, sustained, excellence. Hard to do in the NFL and should be respected as such. He's going to wear a gold jacket when he's done playing.

(07-06-2022, 05:37 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: HAHA 


He's got jokes

I dont mean to de-rail or pile on the poor guy, but i find it funny that our 15 year + head coach and 9 year starting QB were open for the rest of the NFL to pursue.   Literally any team could have had them -- and Marvin ended up in the pac 12 as a D Coor, and Dalton is nothing but a backup. 


Adam Jones said it best last year before the Super Bowl: 


“I’ve said Andy was nowhere near as good, as poised, as anything as Joe Burrow. Andy was a decent quarterback, a backup at his best, but Andy was what we had in Cincinnati.


And, there is a lot of this fanbase who wanted to keep both of those losers around 'cause they earned it and they actually thought they were good for the Franchise'  . Hell, Mike Brown could barely part ways w them himself.

(07-06-2022, 08:34 PM)ATOTR Wrote: I dont mean to de-rail or pile on the poor guy, but i find it funny that our 15 year + head coach and 9 year starting QB were open for the rest of the NFL to pursue.   Literally any team could have had them -- and Marvin ended up in the pac 12 as a D Coor, and Dalton is nothing but a backup. 


Adam Jones said it best last year before the Super Bowl: 


“I’ve said Andy was nowhere near as good, as poised, as anything as Joe Burrow. Andy was a decent quarterback, a backup at his best, but Andy was what we had in Cincinnati.


And, there is a lot of this fanbase who wanted to keep both of those losers around 'cause they earned it and they actually thought they were good for the Franchise'  .  Hell, Mike Brown could barely part ways w them himself.

I have less than zero desire to get into an Andy Dalton debate. It's been hashed, rehased, baked, and rebaked a million times both here and on the mother ship back when. It's history and I'm over it. But I'll say this:

The problems both in the regular season and the playoffs ran way deeper than just Dalton. Now back to the present.

(07-06-2022, 12:49 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I know we've had a dozen threads about this but what else is there to talk about ?

This list seems close I suppose.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-quarterback-rankings-for-2022/ar-AAZecBL?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=9ed0c99241f14174baa354119fa75af0

(07-06-2022, 09:06 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I have less than zero desire to get into an Andy Dalton debate. It's been hashed, rehased, baked, and rebaked a million times both here and on the mother ship back when. It's history and I'm over it. But I'll say this:

The problems both in the regular season and the playoffs ran way deeper than just Dalton. Now back to the present.

Understandable.

I’ve had this discussion w friends and family too many time to count

(07-06-2022, 02:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Josh Allen hype train has gotten a little out of control. He's good, but not 2nd best good.

Running isn't something that's sustainable long term, and I don't know if he's accurate enough to be elite. He's had below average accuracy in 3 of his 4 years, including 2021. Also for all the arm strength he has, he has been under 7.0 YPA in 3 of his 4 years as well, including 2021.

Burrow threw for roughly 200 more yards on 125 less attempts,to give context to Allen's accuracy and YPA issues.

My top 10 without thinking too hard about it...
1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Mahomes
4. Wilson
t-5. Burrow/Watson
7. Herbert
8. Stafford
9. Allen
10. Prescott

No idea the difference was that big.

(07-06-2022, 09:28 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No idea the difference was that big.

Yup. Last year Josh Allen was 7% below league average in yards per attempt and 8% below league average in completion rate. His QB Rating was dead on league average. Of the QBs who were top 20 in pass attempts, Allen had the 19th best completion %, only ahead of Trevor Lawrence, and 17th best YPA ahead of Rapistburger, Goff, and Lawrence.

He did have a monster postseason, though.

(07-06-2022, 06:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's not Andy's fault.....

(07-06-2022, 09:06 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The problems both in the regular season and the playoffs ran way deeper than just Dalton. Now back to the present.

3 teams later and people are still talking about Andy… :facepalm:

Anyway, that ranking seems about right - other than Allen being a couple spots too high.

I’d also take Lamar over Dak in the top 10.

(07-06-2022, 09:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yup. Last year Josh Allen was 7% below league average in yards per attempt and 8% below league average in completion rate. His QB Rating was dead on league average. Of the QBs who were top 20 in pass attempts, Allen had the 19th best completion %, only ahead of Trevor Lawrence, and 17th best YPA ahead of Rapistburger, Goff, and Lawrence.

He did have a monster postseason, though.

You can't help but wonder were Allen on a lesser team would he have the same hype train going ?

(07-06-2022, 10:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 3 teams later and people are still talking about Andy…

Anyway, that ranking seems about right - other than Allen being a couple spots too high.

I’d also take Lamar over Dak in the top 10.

facepalm aside; we often talk about many former Bengals. 

Do you think if Andy would have went to the Rams and won the Superbowl this year; we'd be talking about him?

Folks were wrong about Andy's awesomeness..nothing wrong with bringing it up from time to time..

(07-06-2022, 01:45 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: By the time his suspension is up, he won't have played in like two years. I just think it's impossible to put him in the top 10 based on that alone.

I know this sounds crazy, but I think he has peaked. He has torn the same ACL in his left knee twice. He has a ton of other baggage and like I said, he hasn't played in over two years before it's all said and done. 

Believe it or not, he will not have played in THREE years if his suspension is for the entire season.  I get what Fred is saying based on his past, but there is no way I can rank him at all if he hasn't played in three years.  Crazy.  

(07-06-2022, 11:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: facepalm aside; we often talk about many former Bengals. 

Do you think if Andy would have went to the Rams and won the Superbowl this year; we'd be talking about him?

Folks were wrong about Andy's awesomeness..nothing wrong with bringing it up from time to time..

Well of course. Because that would mean he’s still starter quality, but since he’s really not at this point it seems unnecessary to even bring him up in a current QB ranking. But I agree with you about them being wrong. I told you so can be fun in moderation.

(07-06-2022, 10:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 3 teams later and people are still talking about Andy…

Anyway, that ranking seems about right - other than Allen being a couple spots too high.

I’d also take Lamar over Dak in the top 10.

Well, there is the Dalton line ya know. 

And I can't get off the fence on LJ being top 10. 

(07-07-2022, 08:38 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Well, there is the Dalton line ya know. 

And I can't get off the fence on LJ being top 10. 

I feel like Tannehill has maybe taken over as the new “Dalton line.”

Lamar still has a lot to prove (funny to say wrt a MVP). He has been terrible in the playoffs, and his passing can look pretty bad at times. I’d still take him over guys like Dak and Carr, though.

(07-07-2022, 11:11 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I feel like Tannehill has maybe taken over as the new “Dalton line.”

Lamar still has a lot to prove (funny to say wrt a MVP). He has been terrible in the playoffs, and his passing can look pretty bad at times. I’d still take him over guys like Dak and Carr, though.

Unsure about that.  Had Tannehill been released at age 32 like Dalton was - He would have found a starting job in the NFL immediately.   Dalton has been one of the worst QBs in football for the last 3 years (When he has managed to play), and the rest of the league knows hes a backup

(07-06-2022, 01:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No way in hell Deshaun Watson can be #11.

Watson has been sacked more often (9.1 sack rate) than Burrow (8.2) in his career yet has a higher passer rating (104.5 to 100.2).  Watson's career passer rating is #2 in NFL history.

Watson is also on another level when it comes to running the ball.  Watson averages 31 yards per game, 5.5 yards per carry, and scores a rushing td every 3.2 games.  Burrow averages 10 yards per games, 3.4 per carry, and scores a rushing td only once every 5.2 games.

**EDIT**

I just used Burrow's numbers to show how good Watson is.  But I would still take Burrows over Watson.  Watson depends more on elite athleticism than Burrow.  Watson is incredible to watch, but I doubt he sustains his peak as long as Burrow.

Watson should just not be on any lists until he plays a game again. I'm expecting him to end up being gone for 2 years at least. That's a long gap between playing and he could be much worse afterwards. Only good example I can remember off the top of my head is when Michael Vick came back, he played decent enough though he was never at Deshauns level.

(07-07-2022, 06:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Believe it or not, he will not have played in THREE years if his suspension is for the entire season.  I get what Fred is saying based on his past, but there is no way I can rank him at all if he hasn't played in three years.  Crazy.  

All true. Shouldn't be on any list if he isn't playing...

Allen is the most overrated QB in football.. He had some stinkers last year. Specifically against the Jaguars when he only put 6 points on the board. He had a few other games like that too.. He hasn't won shit yet.. I could see Allen having a bad year. All the pressure is on him. Every expert basically calling them the 99 rams...

(07-06-2022, 09:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yup. Last year Josh Allen was 7% below league average in yards per attempt and 8% below league average in completion rate. His QB Rating was dead on league average. Of the QBs who were top 20 in pass attempts, Allen had the 19th best completion %, only ahead of Trevor Lawrence, and 17th best YPA ahead of Rapistburger, Goff, and Lawrence.

He did have a monster postseason, though.

Allen was pretty mediocre his first two years, then blew up when the Bills got Diggs.  He backslid a bit this past season when Cole Beasley hit the the wall.  The one year he really played at an elite level, he basically had Top 5 outside and slot WR's.  

Really, we're at a point where the game has changed and it's not a realistic expectation to think your QB is going to make decent WR's look good.  In a lot of recent cases, it honestly seems to be the opposite. 

(07-07-2022, 12:39 PM)Tony Wrote: Allen is the most overrated QB in football.. He had some stinkers last year. Specifically against the Jaguars when he only put 6 points on the board. He had a few other games like that too.. He hasn't won shit yet.. I could see Allen having a bad year. All the pressure is on him. Every expert basically calling them the 99 rams...

I'd like to see him have at least one more really good season before crowning him a solid top 3-5 QB but he's been pretty good the past 2 years.

I hear the John Elway comparisons all the time with him. Needs to get that team to the Super Bowl, but I'm hoping that road continually stops in Cincinnati every year, though if we are out I'm probably still a Bills bro.