(07-15-2022, 05:47 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: We all knew this was coming.  Another good player undone by a greedy agent.

OK….now we can work on Joe B’s contract with some wiggle room.

Best to you Jessie.  Hope you find what you’re looking for and stay healthy and get to another Super Bowl.

Players are fully complicit in their own contracts. He chose the agent because he knew how he negotiated.  Jessie knew what he was doing.

To answer the original question.......Because the money aint matching up with the labor.



Easy. Bates thinks hes our anchor on D, the Bengals think ANY good safety would've succeeded on this defense.

(07-15-2022, 07:12 PM)J24 Wrote: The agent was asking for a fair deal the front office clearly low balled him according to reports.

Link?

I never saw any report of what the Bengals offered.

What do you think a "fair deal" would have been for Bates?  I say 4 year $56 million.  Make $16 million a signing bonus, and only give him a $4 million salary his first season.  That gives Bates $20 million this year and drops our cap hit to $8 million.

(07-15-2022, 09:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link?

I never saw any report of what the Bengals offered.

What do you think a "fair deal" would have been for Bates?  I say 4 year $56 million.  Make $16 million a signing bonus, and only give him a $4 million salary his first season.  That gives Bates $20 million this year and drops our cap hit to $8 million.

Rumor is 17 mill guarantee. 5 year 85 mill...

(07-15-2022, 09:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link?

I never saw any report of what the Bengals offered.

What do you think a "fair deal" would have been for Bates?  I say 4 year $56 million.  Make $16 million a signing bonus, and only give him a $4 million salary his first season.  That gives Bates $20 million this year and drops our cap hit to $8 million.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1547997848167260161?t=_F_okF_y_KQw6sJt9zoirw&s=19

(07-15-2022, 09:11 PM)Tony Wrote: Rumor is 17 mill guarantee. 5 year 85 mill...

I can't imagine Bates would pass up that deal and risk playing on a one-year deal.

I would not give him that.  I don't think any NFL team will give him any more.

He might have got more than that after the 2020 season, but we can't pretend that 2021 never happened.

(07-15-2022, 09:16 PM)J24 Wrote: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1547997848167260161?t=_F_okF_y_KQw6sJt9zoirw&s=19

I don't see anything about what they offered.

What was it.

And what do you think is "fair" for Bates to get this year?

Ian Rapoport Tweeted that we only offered him 4 million more TOTAL than what he would make on the franchise tag, not 4 million per year.

If that's true, then I don't blame him for not signing the tender and I'm actually pissed at our front office.

I was thinking we were offering him 15 or 16 per and he was declining, but 4 more total is ripping him off.

I thought we were done being cheap?

Only makes sense if the plan was never to sign him long-term, which if we were trying to do the tag and trade, I understand, but I hope we didn't just low ball him.

The Bengals are cheap narrative should be dead, 3 years of big free agent signings and there even building a practice bubble. Longterm it doesn’t make sense to pay Bates. The Bengals will pay you for a 2nd contract if they believe your worth it money and position wise. Palmer ,Dalton , Chad Johnson, A.J. Green , Willie Anderson , Whitworth , Atkins, Dunlap , Leon Halll ect. Outside of saving money for Burrow and Chase who will probably to be the highest paid at there position , you got Higgins , Jonah Williams who plays LT which is a more valuable position, Logan Wilson and others.

(07-15-2022, 07:12 PM)J24 Wrote: The agent was asking for a fair deal the front office clearly low balled him according to reports.

I'm not sure that's accurate.  Bates is maybe a top 10 safety, but not top 5.  He made plays in the playoffs and that means something, but he has to be more consistent in the regular season.  

I think the tag is fine, but I'd let him walk after this year anyway.  Let another team overpay.

(07-16-2022, 08:39 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I'm not sure that's accurate.  Bates is maybe a top 10 safety, but not top 5.  He made plays in the playoffs and that means something, but he has to be more consistent in the regular season.  

I think the tag is fine, but I'd let him walk after this year anyway.  Let another team overpay.

I understand players wanting all they can get while they can get it. However, I agree, I wouldn't pay top 5 safety money for him. It's just to much considering what we're going to have to pay out coming up around the corner.

It's not entirely clear any other team will pay Bates what he wants although I suspect someone will and then be sorely disappointed. Bates or his agent have engaged in a game of chicken with the billionaire class and billionaires don't seem to like losing out on even a dime here and there. If, and it's a big if, the owners all close ranks for Mr Brown then Jesse will be screwed true and blue. He'll be done in the league and have to go beg the Canadian league for peanuts. 

(07-16-2022, 08:39 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I'm not sure that's accurate.  Bates is maybe a top 10 safety, but not top 5.  He made plays in the playoffs and that means something, but he has to be more consistent in the regular season.  

I think the tag is fine, but I'd let him walk after this year anyway.  Let another team overpay.

17 million guaranteed is extremely low

(07-16-2022, 03:22 PM)J24 Wrote: 17 million guaranteed is extremely low

It is right in line with what we gave these players

Reader................ $20
Boyd................... $17.3
Hendrickson........ $16
Waynes ............. $15

(07-16-2022, 04:00 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Ian Rapoport Tweeted that we only offered him 4 million more TOTAL than what he would make on the franchise tag, not 4 million per year.

If that's true, then I don't blame him for not signing the tender and I'm actually pissed at our front office.

I was thinking we were offering him 15 or 16 per and he was declining, but 4 more total is ripping him off.

I thought we were done being cheap?

Only makes sense if the plan was never to sign him long-term, which if we were trying to do the tag and trade, I understand, but I hope we didn't just low ball him.

$4 million guaranteed.

Not $4 million on the total contract value.

(07-16-2022, 05:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is right in line with what we gave these players

Reader................ $20
Boyd................... $17.3
Hendrickson........ $16
Waynes ............. $15

Who cares? It isn't close to his value as player. If he was on the open market he would be getting at the very least 30 million in total guaranteed money. 

(07-16-2022, 06:08 PM)J24 Wrote: Who cares? It isn't close to his value as player. If he was on the open market he would be getting at the very least 30 million in total guaranteed money. 

Only 3 safeties have gotten $30 million guaranteed.

I guess we just disagree on his market value.

(07-16-2022, 07:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only 3 safeties have gotten $30 million guaranteed.

I guess we just disagree on his market value.

This is just factually wrong there have been 7 Safeties that have gotten 30 million guaranteed dollars and 12 that have gotten at least 20.

(07-16-2022, 09:23 PM)J24 Wrote: This is just factually wrong there have been 7 Safeties that have gotten 30 million guaranteed dollars and 12 that have gotten at least 20.

Here is what I was going by

NFL Salary Rankings | Spotrac

What is your source?

Thank you very much for access. Obviously a Broncos fan here HOWEVER, I would be remiss if I didn't say that the Bengals are my daughters #1 NFL team.

Two? off-seasons ago I lobbied on my Broncos podcast to let Justin Simmons walk and make the same offer to Jess Bates. Right after that podcast the Bengals tagged Bates. Jessy Bates did NOT disappoint. Before I go any further the Broncos have been run [into the ground] by would be owner / GM / HC / OC... John Elway from behind the scenes. Von Miller wanted out of the Elway led Broncos and Justin Simmons [an Elway pick] was groomed by Elway's pr department to replace Von as not just a Broncos spokesperson but an 'NFL' spokesperson. How does this pertain to the Bengals.....? Fast forward to this off-season ESPN outrageously proclaimed Justin Simmons the NFL's number #1 safety and making Jessy Bates chopped liver by comparison. If you as Bengals fans, have bought into the pr spin that Simmons in any way is in Jessy Bates universe, I ask you to simply watch the Bengals VS Broncos at NFL 'replay'. Before I came to this board or thread I said on my Broncos podcast, that Jessy Bates needs to take his agent into the Bengals front office with that ESPN nonsense ranking and have a serious talk. When your team stinks and you tell it like it is you aren't the most popular podcast among fellow fans. However, we have a strong NFL centric following because we do tell it like it is and we have got several fans from both conferences to actually study film on Simmons beyond the context-less FAKE stats Simmons gets, and they are floored just how bad he really is.

This, make the NFL pr spokesperson look good 'at all costs', added to the... 'pay QB's the kings ransom', opens up a couple cans of worms. I think it's a slap in the face to players like Bates who really are great at their position to be relegated as 'chop liver' in the 'rankings bs spin cycle. I'm sure the Bengals front office isn't crying a river that god-awful Simmons is touted as 'king of the safeties'. I also have noted reading this thread that Bengals fans are going down the slipper slope Broncos fans have gone down now for seven seasons of 'Just Good Enough'. The NFL has turned the QB position into a Disney princess, and we as fans find it no problem to pay them billions of dollars [I'm being dramatic obviously] at the cost of surrounding them with great talent you have to pay for. Because of Mahomes half a billion contract, I do not see him staying in KC because the overpayment of his contract is just not sustainable because QBs don't work in a vacuum. You have to pay great players even if they are NOT the QB.